Mashable - The Social Media Guide - Latest Comments in Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

freeman — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 02:09:37 -0000

"a far cry"?? David Axelrod practically invented astroturfing. Obama's campaign antics are downright criminal. But you won't hear about that from his fan-boy news coverage.. with there tingly legs. what's creepy to me is a stadium full of obama-robots, brainwashed by a cult of personality, chanting for socialism. As for all those who were foolish enough to give your mobile #'s over... enjoy all that spam text you'll be getting, 'cos you know he sold you to the highest bidder. you'll see.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Todd Defren — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:30:02 -0000

I wrote a LONG reply in this box - and then decided to turn it into a blog post instead.

http://bit.ly/4ur4np

Mark, I hope you'll come take a look - I usually love your stuff but in this case I think you got it wrong. Thanks!

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Independent — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:25:30 -0000

Ling wins.

The important point to remember is that a political strategist comes up with talking points, and a day later everyone is talking repeating or rebutting those points on the internet or around the water-cooler.

The motive of the individual player seems irrelevant, because the terms of the debate have already been set and regardless of incentives, there will be plenty of people parroting the "news."

And obviously, someone who doesn't support McCain in the first place isn't going to go work for him to get some cheezy merchandise with his name and face all over it. McCain isn't going to win over supporters with tit-for-tat bumper sticker offers, but he might encourage some of his more active online supporters to put in a few extra hours for the coffee mug.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Jo — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 07:08:42 -0000

I intuit the difference between Obama and McCain's campaigns but I am not sure I could explain it simply to non-media people - to McCain, for example.

I understand that McCain's strategy might be considered an offense now in Europe. The link is i a comment here
http://socialmediamafia.com...

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

mike burnett — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:31:10 -0000

This sort of strategy is creepy, even if it's not "bad" in the moral sense. Either way it's a far cry from the online organization the Obama campaign and the Dem's can boast.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

seanhackbarth — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 04:06:01 -0000

Here are a few things to think about:

1) The McCain campaign rewarding supporters for pushing comments on weblogs isn't a new feature. It was rolled out with johnmccain.com's redesign a few months ago. It's interesting WaPo only noticed now. That tells me the feature isn't being used much.

2) A key thing I learned this campaign cycle (was Fred Thompson's eCampaign co-director; now work for the Senate Republican Conference) is supporter feedback works. Ron Paul money bombs would never have happened if the campaign had not slapped a real-time fundraising counter on the website and opened up the fundraising data. Mike Huckabee's and Thompson's online fundraising efforts would not have been as lucrative without the live counters. I had supporters tell me they donated to Thompson just to see the counter go up. Tangible feedback encourages greater supporter activity. A scoreboard encourages competition.

3) I don't like the idea of talking points for weblog comments. They'll come off as inauthentic and ineffective. However, rewarding supporters for finding new supporters and volunteers is a good, positive thing.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

jg — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 02:54:39 -0000

The "G" in DavidG stands for "gets it."

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

ProfessionalGun — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 02:37:46 -0000

I am in complete agreement with DavidG. 'Copy and paste the campaign's message into blog comments under your name'? The McCain campaign is actively turning its supporters into spammers. Blogs, as you know, serve the unique function of delivering news and enabling relevant conversation. When part of that conversation is a) irrelevant or b) pre-conceived, you don't have a real conversation at all. It's a tremendous disservice to social media on the whole - and any fan of social media should be down-right offended.

I am.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Ling — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:03:10 -0000

What I've seen is that the media (both MSM and bloggers) on the right are pretty much in lockstep with talking points. The comments usually echo and follow the posts. The left, on the other hand, is more free-wheeling (but that could be cause its way bigger than what the right has). Point is, the McCain really has no need to do this, since most commenters on the right are going to be following along anyway. And like you say, liberals aren't going to suddenly wakeup and start posting for McCain in return for free goodies.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

DavidG — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:39:21 -0000

Mark, I just read the article;

1) It does discuss Obama's points-based rewards system. The article's not guilty of the one-sided coverage you accuse it of and actually discusses the dems' campaigns in much the same way you do. It is clear that the points-systems are not the reason the "astroturfing" allegations were raised. IMO, you seem to have misread the article.

2) The core issue here (and apparentley the real reason for the astroturfing allegations) is the deceit involved in impersonating supporters in comments. The article confirms that this relationship is not disclosed in these posts. Do you understand how that's a deceptive practice?

3) Have you ever seen an automated comment marketing campaign that didn't make the advertiser look supa-cheesy? That criticism seems pretty accurate to me.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:17:43 -0000

So again, just so we're clear here, you're saying that this falls outside the realm of good social media practices because the McCain campaign is giving out schwag?

Because that's the difference between say, a MediaMatters bulletin with talking points and quotes sent out to liberal bloggers for regurgitation and this.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:15:11 -0000

So you're saying that giving away free bumper stickers is what makes this immoral?

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

DavidG — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 23:12:42 -0000

Mark, I need to look into this some more but based on your write-up alone, I think you may have missed the point here; particularly from a social media marketing perspective.

Regardless of the definition of astroturfing, when people are remunerated for re-posting marketing materials in a public forum, particularly posting in an automated way, that is SPAM. There's a significant difference between SPAM and a successful viral media campaign. I don't see how it's good PR to suggest you have to reward someone before they'll endorse McCain. Not a positive message, regardless of the financial value of the "rewards."

What bothers me more is that someone thought that it's a good idea to:"Spread the Word about the presumptive Republican nominee by sending campaign-supplied comments to blogs and Web sites under the visitorâ€™s screen name." I'd need to see these comments but if I read this correctly, the McCain campaign will be impersonating supporters and posting comments as them on blogs etc. Maybe they have a solution that discloses this relationship in the comment but if not, it's simply deceptive.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Bill — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:50:14 -0000

Oh, Aaron. How embarrassing for you. You should check for the Kool-Aid stains around your lips - those red marks aren't normal. Godspeed in your recuperation.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Ridgeliner7 — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:42:15 -0000

MyBarackObama.com has the same deal, has for well over a year, giving rankings and points for participating in fundraising, groups, events.

Re: Astroturfing Social Media: OK Only For Liberal Agendas

Bill — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:38:11 -0000

Exactly right. Progressive advocacy groups and sophisticated online campaigns (left and right) utilize platforms (Convio, Kintera, Grassroots Enterprise, and many others) that assist the campaigns in qualifying member proclivity for action.

How do they do it? Mostly through processes that measure user activity by points-based systems that evaluate an individuals proclivity for engaging in progressively high-value actions based on their past activity.

What actions? Open a campaign email, you earn a point. Click through on a campaign email newsletter article, you earn two points. Forward a message or appeal to a friend, you earn three points. Attend a campaign event in your community, you earn five points. Etc., etc... These accusations are tired.