Mashable - The Social Media Guide - Latest Comments in NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Ringo Shells — Sat, 12 May 2007 08:52:44 -0000

how the hell does a website literally implode. try speaking the language we've all agreed on.

i love george carlin.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

XOR1911 — Fri, 11 May 2007 06:56:37 -0000

Your house analogy was ridiculous... it was about taking physical property... a more reasoned comparison would be if someone was to merely make a copy of a house.

That aside... as it's not really my point for posting...

"Youâ€™re right, patents and copyrights are monopolies. But they encourage more innovations and more choices in the marketplace."

Monopolies and patents can stifle innovation and are often intended to stop others competing, which is kinda why you have a monopoly in the first place... this leads to LESS choices in the marketplace... not more!!

As for these numbers, this isn't about promoting piracy, though I can understand it's easy for some to infer it as that.

This was more a protest of draconian DRM - making media we pay for unusable in the way we want (Like stripping out DRM so that media can be played on portable devices... rather than only hardware that supports the DRM.)

When people BUY media, they should be able to play that media on whatever piece of hardware they want. This is about revolting against controls and restrictions being forced on us... with the people who suffer the most being the consumer that's parting with their money... only to find they have to get some DRM-compliant piece of hardware to play what they've just brought.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

mamaway — Sat, 05 May 2007 00:20:29 -0000

"you IP hardliners lose"

Hmm, people for a particular law are hardliners. What about other laws that protect people, jobs, rights?

Take eminent domain, for instance. When the supreme court ruled that local governments could take away property from owners if there was an economic benefit to the community, did you cheer for that?

I guess us property rights hardliners were "pwned" there. Or going to the extreme, when OJ was let off for double murder, I guess that was just the free market working, right? After all, the more money you have, the less likely the law will apply to you.

You're right, patents and copyrights are monopolies. But they encourage more innovations and more choices in the marketplace. I don't want to make money off of someone else's creativity. I want to pay someone for their creativity, in hopes that they will pay me for mine. And money is transferred and circulated through the economy that way. Trade. Laws do promote trade, whether you studied economics in college or just pretend you're a free-market capitalist, when you say income should be distributed more fairly.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Rudd-O — Fri, 04 May 2007 21:14:18 -0000

And even if you don't like what I said or you think I'm a pinko (gonna be tough selling that idea to people)... well,

- the key's out there,
- it isn't needed to pirate DVDs, so it's got nothing to do with piracy,
- a multitude of people (millions and millions of them) have pitched in with their opinions, and guess what... you IP hardliners lose. Bad. You were pwned, again and again. And you'll continue to be pwned.

Tough luck for you guys, it's time to start playing free market or filing for bankruptcy :-).

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Rudd-O — Fri, 04 May 2007 21:09:14 -0000

Mamamay, Prokofy:

"Youâ€™re not addressing the issue. What if I did exactly what you did, for free, and got a thousand other people to do the same thing? Why would anyone pay you? Because they like you?"

Yeah, if I did what you do for free, and people still paid you, it's probably because they like you or your brand or your reputation, don't you think? And if you didn't earn money because of my free wares, TOUGH LUCK ON YOU, DUDE. THAT's THE MARKET TALKING, AND YOU SHOULD NOT BE ENTITLED TO ECONOMIC RELIEF. Either innovate so people pay you, or GTFO. Sock puppet.

Read. Learn. You are nothing but armchair philosophers and economists (stress on "armchair"). I actually studied economics in college, and I'm deeply involved in the matter. Precisely because I'm as capitalist and pro-market as they come, is that I'm against the hardline stance of "intellectual property" propagandists, who do nothing but promote laws that guarantee them their monopolies in perpetuity.

(Oh, yeah, copyrights, patents both are limited-time monopolies, didja know? What now? Are you pro-monopolies now?)

So, trade becomes freer with stronger IP laws? How can laws that restrict trade in works of art and ideas, be "free trade"? Oh, my God. My brain ASPLODE.

Read the book "Against intellectual monopoly", then come back.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Peter Cashmore — Thu, 03 May 2007 18:50:08 -0000

Yup - turning the aggression on the MPAA would have been a good idea in hindsight.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

mamaway — Thu, 03 May 2007 16:23:31 -0000

"People still pay for what I do"

You're not addressing the issue. What if I did exactly what you did, for free, and got a thousand other people to do the same thing? Why would anyone pay you? Because they like you? Yeah, that's evident in this gem:

"Youâ€™re full of shit and propaganda-instilled misconceptions, so shut up."

LOL OMG PWND!$%& 0001010101111000

"There is no such thing as intellectual property. Property by definition is something you can hold, the fundamental property of â€œpropertyâ€ is that if I take it, you no longer have it."

Can you hold your house and the land it's sitting on? What about your legal claim to that property? I can get from you that without physically taking it from you. I just need a judge to put a lien on your house.

"The world is always better off when riches are distributed more fairly, rather than clustered around a few individuals."

Like in the USSR or China, or Cuba? Fairness can only be achieved by force, because all lifeforms are greedy. It's is a survival technique. When people are forced to be fair, it tends to limit their freedoms, and then they're forced to cheat.

And I got news for you. The wealth pie isn't fixed. Wealth creates wealth through trade. Both parties are better off after a consensual trade. More trade, more wealth. Econ 101.

Just because a pop star makes millions doesn't mean you and I are somehow worse off. The fans chose to spend money on that pop star rather than something else. And just because the pop star has millions doesn't mean it's taken out of the economy. It's usually loaned out so people can buy homes and start businesses.

If you think this is propaganda, then I suggest you spend sometime investigating how the economy works and how our standard of living has only improved as trade has become freer. And people only trade when they have laws that protect them. Such as IP laws.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Prokofy — Thu, 03 May 2007 16:06:55 -0000

And the idea that this dispute is only about being able to use a product the way you wish is just plain lame. If you are for copying, be for copying. Don't dress it up with one of those fake "medical marijuana" and "my grandmother has cancer and needs to have a toke" sort of arguments that people use in favour of marijuana. It's stupid, and unpersuasive.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Prokofy — Thu, 03 May 2007 16:05:25 -0000

You're the one filled with socialist mind-memes and propaganda, Rudd-O. What does Britany's riches have to do with a thing? There are millions of other people selling software in various forms that make far smaller amounts of money, and knocking them out business means they cannot feed their families. I don't see how your success in selling some crappy freebie on the Internet "pwns" shit -- it just shows you off as a blowhard unable to look beyond your own fuck-you hedonistic self-interest. I don't see why this sort of Bolshevik extremism should be allowed to take hold. Creative content, even in electronic form, is property. Some people sell it, some people don't. Those who sell it must have a way of protecting it from being ripped and copied by thugs.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Rudd-O — Thu, 03 May 2007 14:49:20 -0000

mamaway:

first, it's britney, not brittany. now that we've got that out of our way, let's move on to substance.

No, I don't believe the majority of your country is against copyright infringement. But I do believe that informed people are against draconian copyright regimes, such as yours.

What I do for a living is simple: I sell free software (free as in freedom, not as in beer). This means you're entitled to copy the works you bought for me and do whatever you want. People still pay for what I do, even though most of the free software that I sell is already on the Web for free. So, yes, I pwned you right here, right now.

There is no such thing as intellectual property. Property by definition is something you can hold, the fundamental property of "property" is that if I take it, you no longer have it. Copyright infringement is NOT THEFT, no matter how strongly you feel this to be true. Lawful and lawful, again, do not necessarily mean right and wrong. And your copyright regime, which doesn't let me share a song with my friend for free, most certainly is WRONG because it statutorily preempts my sharing just so a few ones can get even richer.

In the long run, the Britney Spears of the world will just have to do with less money. But that'll be a good thing, because it'll open the market for more artists. The world is always better off when riches are distributed more fairly, rather than clustered around a few individuals. This is the most solid argument for capitalism and democracy, and copyrights are monopolies that stand against those values. We tolerated them because they seemed to foster more creativity, but nowadays does 200 years of copyright protection really foster any more creativity than just 10?

Finally, the HD-DVD number issue has nothing to do with copyright infringement. It has to do with the right you have (or should have) to use whatever media you bought in whatever fashion you want, (in my opinion) so long as it's for noncommercial use.

You're full of shit and propaganda-instilled misconceptions, so shut up.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

mamaway — Thu, 03 May 2007 13:31:20 -0000

Rudd-O

You really believe the majority in this country are against copyright enforcement? Are you insane?

What do you do for a living? How about I make it legal to copy everything you do, and then just give it a way for free. Do you think people are going to pay you for what you do, when they can just get it free from me?

What about the people Brittany Spears employs or people who make it possible for others to produce music so the rest of us don't have to listen to her crap? They need money too.

Right and wrong still exist. Stealing intellectual property may not be as bad as physical property, but the Law, which society has created so it can be peaceful and prosperous, is on the side of doing right and that's protecting the content producer's property. If you don't like it, then find or start a new society. We'll see how long it lasts.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

chrishambly — Thu, 03 May 2007 10:05:14 -0000

And they all screamed mutiny!!

What a powerful uprising, admirable, not from a copy protection breach, but from a social movement it's quite an amazing study.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Jake Lockley — Wed, 02 May 2007 23:12:17 -0000

What do you expect when your audience is a bunch of idiot teenagers? And for those of you posted the key here, wow, you're really clever and we're all so very not impressed with your lack of originality in an attempt to be cute. Idiots. If you want the key it's a search engine away, no one needs to post the damn thing for people who don't know how to use Google or Astalavista, let the idiots flail in their own mess. Please, suffer. An army of idiots accomplishing nothing is just an army of idiots. If they want to get banned from Digg, good. Maybe Digg will actually gain some quality thanks to this mess by getting rid of all the script kiddies.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Rudd-O — Wed, 02 May 2007 16:49:01 -0000

Prokofy:

Because if the majority agrees an act shouldn't be a crime, then it should't be. That's how society should work. At the moment, though, it's not the majority but the depth of the pocket that rules.

And you have faulty assumptions in your post:

1. The code is useless to professional copyright infringers. They can copy the disks without the code.
2. Copyright infringement is not theft, no matter how strong you feel that Britney Spears needs to have one more million dollars. Theft's when I take something from you and you no longer have it. Don't buy into the party line because it clouds your reasoning.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

The Thinking Blog — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:58:50 -0000

Well.. the users make the website so the owners simply become those who provide the medium.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

The Thinking Blog — Wed, 02 May 2007 15:55:54 -0000

No. The power of Digg users over comes the power of Digg admins.. that's all!

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Prokofy — Wed, 02 May 2007 14:01:13 -0000

Could you explain to me why even if a million people are for theft, theft becomes OK? It takes money, staff, creativity to make movies. Why are movie makers expected to give them away to a million entitlement-happy thugs?

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

kamal — Wed, 02 May 2007 03:03:59 -0000

Ah, just saw Kevin's latest blog post about what's happening. Smart move on his part, should bring him back into the community's good graces.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

kamal — Wed, 02 May 2007 03:01:34 -0000

One of the funniest things I have seen in a long time.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Project — Wed, 02 May 2007 02:32:44 -0000

Wow. Now thats democracy.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

Pete Cashmore — Wed, 02 May 2007 02:24:52 -0000

Mind if I do the same with your credit card? ;)

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

vaspers the grate — Wed, 02 May 2007 01:43:23 -0000

RIP all the DRM and MSM garbage out there!

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

vaspers the grate — Wed, 02 May 2007 01:42:11 -0000

Hooray for the Killers of DRM and MSM!!!

Death to the MSM and DRM!!!

Oh happy day, happy day!!!

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

RBA — Wed, 02 May 2007 01:36:49 -0000

Well, let me rephrase that because I think the Digg crew didn't handle it wery well at first.

They should probably have posted an entry in their blog prior to the deletion of the story, perhaps even showing a copy of the letter from the MPAA, and redirecting the anger towards who probably deservers it, instead of deleting the story and reacting afterwards.

Other than that, I still think it's quite a sight.

Re: NO MERCY – DIGG OUT OF CONTROL

RBA — Wed, 02 May 2007 01:19:29 -0000

If you ask me, I think K.Rose & cia. must be having a ball. I was if I were them, honestly. If they're not, then they have a problem.