Great list - I especially like the first one - if they recommend a Twitter campaign - leave the room immediately.
TO'B
Action Jackson
· 9 months ago
I hate to say it, but you're right on about Twitter. What an annoying, pointless little obsession that's become with some people.
Allan Branch
· 1 year ago
Great article Alex! People are always more concerned over marketing than a great product, more worried about their swag than their user's experience.
Steve Radick
· 1 year ago
"They push bleeding edge technology" - I couldn't agree with this one more. I love when I go into a government client and they tell me that they're already "in Second Life" because one of the people on their team got them set up there. They all think it's so cool, but it usually takes them a while before they realize that no one is really going to their island, the people that are aren't in their target demographic, and they're not seeing any return on their investment. "But so-and-so said it was the next big thing" they say...yeah, for some people, not for you. You might want to figure out how a new technology is actually going to help you achieve your goals, instead of just saying "it's cool."
I would also add "they tell you that they're going to create a social media campaign, but they never talk to the public affairs office" to this list. I've run into too many people who want to do grand social media campaigns, and use things like YouTube, Twitter, Second Life, etc., but never take any steps to integrate these things into the organization's existing strategies. You can't run an effective social media campaign and not talk with public affairs. If you have such a great YouTube site, but it doesn't get included on your press releases or on your website, how effective is that?
Scott
· 1 year ago
I certainly agree with your comment about Twitter. I've been to conferences where sessions about leveraging social media to improve conversions ends up being a huge advertisement for Twitter. Sure, it's a very useful tool, but there are many more tools than just Twitter. And in the end it comes down to the value you provide on your own site and the methods you use to engage your community on-site.
Brett
· 1 year ago
Excellent article! Community is a very important factor when building our brand and/or company!
Meg
· 1 year ago
If someone is good at using social media tools to foster community, they'll always be more about the community than the tools, and more about engagement than cutting-edge. You don't always stay ahead by being the early adopter, you stay ahead by generating a response. Great article.
curtismchale
· 1 year ago
The garauntee of success is the thing that gets me. I have lost a few clients to someone who would garauntee results. I have had further contact with a few and after spending tonnes of $$$ they are jaded with the whole industry just making any further work harder. I wish all clients would read something like this before looking to hire someone for SEO or Social Marketing.
Alex Rudloff
· 1 year ago
Excellent post Alex!
Pete Cashmore
· 1 year ago
Love this - thanks Alex!
JJ Lassberg
· 1 year ago
Great List! Thanx for putting it all together in one place. Social Media Consulting, I am sorry to say, is starting to remind me of the SEO industry - a few great firms/professionals and a lot of shady characters.
In reference to "No Guarantees" - I want to throw out to companies considering Social Media - its not all up to the company/consultant advising you... you have to do your part. The consultant can organize the platform - then its up to you engage and converse with your community.
Nathan
· 1 year ago
Short but sweet. Interesting take about "joining the conversation." I'm heading over to that article now.
David Peck
· 1 year ago
Awesome! I love it! Well done
Greg Rollett
· 1 year ago
Good post. Consulting for Social Media goes 2 ways and it will fail if one is missing. As a consultant, I can coach you on how to use tools, how to listen and even how to respond, but if the client does not take the time to go out and listen, produce content and be a player, all is lost.
A "Twitter" campaign is only as good as it is utilized. A blog is only as good as its posts and a community is only as good as its leaders. If you are not a player in this realm, then you may want to back away from that client. Or become a better teacher.
1timstreet
· 1 year ago
You forgot the one that if they write an article or post about "How to Know if You Should Fire Your Social Media Consultant." ;)
Pete Cashmore
· 1 year ago
SNAP!!
Walt Ribeiro
· 1 year ago
Alex. Interesting article! Reminds me of SEO companies that claim to be able to help you, but have HORRIBLE SEO search result Page ranks for their own company. I agree - trust your gut :) Great points!
DKumar M.
· 1 year ago
Nice Writing.... I really go with you last point about guts.
You need to all always believe in you gut feeling.
S. Neil Vineberg
· 1 year ago
Right on!
The social media sector is full of evangelists and consultants who blow hot air through their blogs and tweets. They are great self-promoters; many are quite entertaining and some have something new to say. I wonder, though, how many are actually monetizing their thought leadership.
Guys executing social media campaigns are the ones I like to hire. I'm wary of those who strategize at high hourly rates, but don't want to get dirt under their fingernails from actual implementation.
Finally, social media campaigns, like marketing and PR, need to be creative-driven. if your social media expert is full of statistics but short on ideas, show him the door.
Leslie Poston
· 1 year ago
Nicely said :)
Mark Nankman
· 1 year ago
Excellent post Alex! This is sooo recognizable, especially the first 3 items of your list. Thanks!
Marcus Nelson
· 1 year ago
Perhaps Alex should make this into a Public Service Announcement with brochures to hand out at targeted locations, such as truck stops, youth hostels & large areas of travel. Even better, create a Twitter account and follow a few bazillion people while having only 13 of his own followers - oh and say, "million" a lot.
Yea - that's the way to get it done! :)
Kidding aside - This is the kind of article every hiring manager should read FIRST, before selecting a "Social Media" candidate! Well done Alex!
Adam Hirsch
· 1 year ago
Woot! Spot on! Can't wait for a follow-up!
Freerangemom
· 1 year ago
I'd add to the list: * They don't include measurable outcomes in their plan. * They don't acknowledge that social media is just a slice of the market. After all, even the top people on Twitter still only have 5000 or so followers. And plenty of people don't have Facebook accounts.
Alex, I couldn't agree more... Always better sticking with those who've walked the walk rather then waste valuable time and resources on those who just continue to talk... As one who's been in the game since the early years of the "Social" phenomenon there is a lot to be said for the knowledge which comes from actually being in the trenches... Your time and money is an invaluable commodity, don't waste it on false promise. Social technology can be a very powerful tool for building a Brand and/or Company, if used correctly. What is the correct way to use it, well that varies based on overall objectives and is where experience shines when consulting a client...
Good post.
“if you’re going to talk the talk, you’ve got to walk the walk†;)
-S
C.C. Chapman
· 1 year ago
Alex, I might need to print this off and frame it because it hits so many points I agree with.
I hate it when anyone focuses on one tool as the end all solution to everything. While there will always be a hot tool of the moment (Twitter), there will be another one here in no time to take the focus away. The key with any tool is HOW it is used, rather then the fact of just using it.
I wish more people would have honest direct talks with their clients rather then promising the world.
And AMEN about building community, because without it, the conversation may just be in a vacuum and not accomplishing anything.
they use buzzwords to compensate for being clueless. i know from first-hand experience.
Ted Shelton
· 1 year ago
Hi "bill" - please feel free to email me directly with your concern. Since you are hiding behind an anonymous ID and making a generalized attack it is hard to know whether you have a legitimate complaint. We have 20 great people in our company and have dozens of happy clients for whom we have gone deep into the trenches and done great work. Please give us a chance to understand your complaint instead of broadcasting attacks.
Beth Harte
· 1 year ago
I think this, unfortunately, includes a lot of PR and ad agencies too. Run fast when they talk about a social media plan but not your exisiting or future marketing plans (which includes PR). Someone recently told me that companies won't pay for 'social media education,' but this post is exactly the reason why they need to. Obviously, from someone who has the experience (yes, more than just talking) and understands the that building a community can actually help better marketing efforts. There's nothing like having your community determine your next product/service...and there are enough proof points around that.
Thanks Alex!
Janet
· 1 year ago
Nice post Alex. As one of the dreaded social media consultants I get requests for guaranteed conversations, or worse yet, fully populated conversations. Not only is the client not interested in talking to their userbase, they want me to make up questions and answers and release them over time! Just like SEO, there are people who will fake you a community at the drop of a hat with or without your knowing it. Just lots of traffic doesn't make it good traffic, and lots of "conversation" doesn't mean it adds value to you or your users. Trust your gut is the way to go, no question.
Barce
· 1 year ago
This is a great piece. The other thing to look for is to go to quantcast.com and see how popular their blog is. If you're website is doing more traffic than their site, you gotta wonder.
Mat Packer
· 1 year ago
You had me at 'bleeding edge'
Eddie Codel
· 1 year ago
The first clue that "ur doing it wrong" is even the consideration of hiring someone who calls themselves a 'social media consultant'. Don't be fooled by the hype! Social media is such a nebulous non-term that means too many things to too many people. Are we talking about collaborative web applications? Or the interactions between people who use them? Hey, I'm leaving a comment on a blog! That makes me a 'social media practitioner' and if I do it enough, an 'expert'. That'll be $500 an hour please!
Yael K. Miller
· 1 year ago
Alex, great post for both sides: consultants and companies. Now I have to go away and think about "conversation" vs. "community."
Kristin Maverick
· 1 year ago
Great post. I work in PR and while our company is building out a social media consulting practice, we are obviously also facing the question of whether or not to partner with these "social media consultants" It's a gray area around if it's worth it or not. Thanks for pulling the list!
Rock Star Information Architec
· 1 year ago
I am sending this article to the potential client who asked me to give them a list of tools to make their site more "social". I sent an assesment of i.e. You need a usability study, web 2.0 look
a.) Some professional certification or standards. Ha, can you imagine a field wide discussion on the core skills, competencies, and knowledge - and then having people take some sort of test for certification? You know, like windows server certification, etc.
b.) Clients need to know how to do due diligence. That they would do this for any consultant - check references, look at experience, get at least two quotes, etc.
As a consultant - I vet any inquiry - to make sure that it isn't just tool driven and that shoe fits - the social media shoe. I've even told some potential clients - no you don't need a social media strategy - you need x first.
Liz Strauss
· 1 year ago
Hi Alex, I agree. That's http://www.successful-blog.com/1/a-rubric-for-s... the first in a series. More coming. I have the same concerns as you do. Visible benchmarks make difference. I'm with you on that.
rajf9598
· 1 year ago
Bingo, dead on bullseye
Scott
· 1 year ago
Jason, any consultant who has had any success should know that its not them who's going to make it happen. Its really the product that drives the campaign. I'd be more wary of consultants who take on a new client with no concern over the quality of the product. Without a good product social media just won't work for you. I'd keep my eye on the consultants who are picky about their clients.
Stefan
· 1 year ago
Alex: Excellent post – matching our experience exactly.
Can still recall the often referred to anonymous something "out there" that would be responsible for each and anything, but not her.
Ed
· 1 year ago
Yes, yes and yes!
Ages ago I started writing a post about why I was a community person not a social media consultant but I became afraid that I would come across all curmudgeonly and reactionary (which maybe I am) when everyone else was being evangelist and missing the important parts of Community (with a big c).
Ta!
Tom O'Brien
· 1 year ago
All these comments got me thinking - so I put up my own blog post expanding my thought above.
The extreme number of hall monitor types showing up in the comments of a valid post make me think I need to revisit the issue of rules, experts and social media. I spoke about it once before (http://uptownuncorked.com/2008/07/26/there-are-...) but now I may elaborate further. Food for thought.
Beth Kanter
· 1 year ago
Alex:
That's my measure of success as a consultant - does the client have the skills and knowledge to implement the project without me? Was I able to deliver training, coaching, support and strategy guidance so that I am no longer under contract with them. My goal is to build the organization's capacity to do the work.
It takes a constructivist approach - to be the guide on the side and the sage on the stage - so totally agree with Leslie about being guide, not an expert.
Annie Heckenberger
· 1 year ago
Alex: congrats on your first mashable post! A couple thoughts: totally understand/like your stand on community vs conversation but I wouldn't discourage people from understanding conversation is a big part of what online community can be all about. I find that as we move forward in the space and more and more new people come onboard, they aren't familiar with or haven't read "The Cluetrain." I think that's a big problem. People should still learn the fundamentals like dribbling even though they want to score with sexy 3-pt shots. And cluetrain as a fundamental talks a lot about the conversation(s). Conversation was our starting point. Community is the evolution.
Second, someone in comments mentioned metrics. I have little empathy for people who resist social media because they say there are no metrics. Marketers are responsible for defining their metrics specific to the goals they want to reach. Period. There are plenty of monitoring and reach tools available for social media. One I like is Radian6 (not a client, just one I like). I can use Radian6 to my hearts delight, looking at where my campaign or brand is appearing, what people are saying, etc. It's up to me, prior to the campaign launch, to define what I want the campaign to do and which tool I am going to use to analyze my work and see if we moved the needle. So whether that metric is connecting with a community with a call to action or actually creating a new product for them to buy a special way or just sign up for something - I, as the marketer/agency define that.
Looking forward to future posts! (never thought I'd say that...)
marita roebkes
· 1 year ago
Excellent post! Wish every CEO will share this with his Chief Community Officer ;-)
Axel Schultze
· 1 year ago
Awesomness - I'm sure this is 97.3% accurate ;-)
Anyways, would you be interested to co-author a white paper about Online Community Manager's responsibilities? We just setup a wiki to collaborate at : http://communitymanagers.pbwiki.com/
Thanks for considering it
Axel
Brad
· 1 year ago
This sounds like it was written about a few people I know in the PR industry.
Arnie
· 1 year ago
Measure, measure, measure. Plus I love the Twitter smackdown. I just read a great post over at SEOMoz related to branding & social media. Here is the link: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/branding-strategies-...
Justin Mathews
· 1 year ago
Woot--great article bro.
virginiaseo
· 6 months ago
Alex, it's like seo to me. A lot of "seo experts" are all about the numbers or hits. Heck, that's the easy part. Traffic to a website does no good without building relationships and sales.
All Comments
Great list - I especially like the first one - if they recommend a Twitter campaign - leave the room immediately.
TO'B
I would also add "they tell you that they're going to create a social media campaign, but they never talk to the public affairs office" to this list. I've run into too many people who want to do grand social media campaigns, and use things like YouTube, Twitter, Second Life, etc., but never take any steps to integrate these things into the organization's existing strategies. You can't run an effective social media campaign and not talk with public affairs. If you have such a great YouTube site, but it doesn't get included on your press releases or on your website, how effective is that?
In reference to "No Guarantees" - I want to throw out to companies considering Social Media - its not all up to the company/consultant advising you... you have to do your part. The consultant can organize the platform - then its up to you engage and converse with your community.
A "Twitter" campaign is only as good as it is utilized. A blog is only as good as its posts and a community is only as good as its leaders. If you are not a player in this realm, then you may want to back away from that client. Or become a better teacher.
You need to all always believe in you gut feeling.
The social media sector is full of evangelists and consultants who blow hot air through their blogs and tweets. They are great self-promoters; many are quite entertaining and some have something new to say. I wonder, though, how many are actually monetizing their thought leadership.
Guys executing social media campaigns are the ones I like to hire. I'm wary of those who strategize at high hourly rates, but don't want to get dirt under their fingernails from actual implementation.
Finally, social media campaigns, like marketing and PR, need to be creative-driven. if your social media expert is full of statistics but short on ideas, show him the door.
Yea - that's the way to get it done! :)
Kidding aside - This is the kind of article every hiring manager should read FIRST, before selecting a "Social Media" candidate! Well done Alex!
* They don't include measurable outcomes in their plan.
* They don't acknowledge that social media is just a slice of the market. After all, even the top people on Twitter still only have 5000 or so followers. And plenty of people don't have Facebook accounts.
http://tinyurl.com/58xm8d
Enjoy.
TO'B
Good post.
“if you’re going to talk the talk, you’ve got to walk the walk†;)
-S
I hate it when anyone focuses on one tool as the end all solution to everything. While there will always be a hot tool of the moment (Twitter), there will be another one here in no time to take the focus away. The key with any tool is HOW it is used, rather then the fact of just using it.
I wish more people would have honest direct talks with their clients rather then promising the world.
And AMEN about building community, because without it, the conversation may just be in a vacuum and not accomplishing anything.
Keep it up Alex.
www.theconversationgroup.com
they use buzzwords to compensate for being clueless. i know from first-hand experience.
Thanks Alex!
Just like SEO, there are people who will fake you a community at the drop of a hat with or without your knowing it. Just lots of traffic doesn't make it good traffic, and lots of "conversation" doesn't mean it adds value to you or your users.
Trust your gut is the way to go, no question.
http://www.successful-blog.com/1/a-rubric-for-s...
There are two possible solutions.
a.) Some professional certification or standards. Ha, can you imagine a field wide discussion on the core skills, competencies, and knowledge - and then having people take some sort of test for certification? You know, like windows server certification, etc.
b.) Clients need to know how to do due diligence. That they would do this for any consultant - check references, look at experience, get at least two quotes, etc.
As a consultant - I vet any inquiry - to make sure that it isn't just tool driven and that shoe fits - the social media shoe. I've even told some potential clients - no you don't need a social media strategy - you need x first.
I agree. That's http://www.successful-blog.com/1/a-rubric-for-s... the first in a series. More coming. I have the same concerns as you do. Visible benchmarks make difference. I'm with you on that.
Can still recall the often referred to anonymous something "out there" that would be responsible for each and anything, but not her.
Ages ago I started writing a post about why I was a community person not a social media consultant but I became afraid that I would come across all curmudgeonly and reactionary (which maybe I am) when everyone else was being evangelist and missing the important parts of Community (with a big c).
Ta!
http://tinyurl.com/4nucc8
TO'B
That's my measure of success as a consultant - does the client have the skills and knowledge to implement the project without me? Was I able to deliver training, coaching, support and strategy guidance so that I am no longer under contract with them. My goal is to build the organization's capacity to do the work.
It takes a constructivist approach - to be the guide on the side and the sage on the stage - so totally agree with Leslie about being guide, not an expert.
Second, someone in comments mentioned metrics. I have little empathy for people who resist social media because they say there are no metrics. Marketers are responsible for defining their metrics specific to the goals they want to reach. Period. There are plenty of monitoring and reach tools available for social media. One I like is Radian6 (not a client, just one I like). I can use Radian6 to my hearts delight, looking at where my campaign or brand is appearing, what people are saying, etc. It's up to me, prior to the campaign launch, to define what I want the campaign to do and which tool I am going to use to analyze my work and see if we moved the needle. So whether that metric is connecting with a community with a call to action or actually creating a new product for them to buy a special way or just sign up for something - I, as the marketer/agency define that.
Looking forward to future posts! (never thought I'd say that...)
Anyways, would you be interested to co-author a white paper about Online Community Manager's responsibilities? We just setup a wiki to collaborate at : http://communitymanagers.pbwiki.com/
Thanks for considering it
Axel
http://www.seomoz.org/blog/branding-strategies-...