Wow…someone telling it like it is… I like it. It’s fresh it’s new and its Free! :P You had to have seen that coming. Seriously… you are absolutely correct. My biggest gripe is with Tribe.net
It is constantly down but I get some GREAT referrals for both business and personal wants and needs. I would happily pay a membership fee if they a) Sold the company to a corporation that knew what to do with – Are the Russians interested? HINT HINT b) They get their act together and make the site stable.
I paid their $5 a month and found NOTHING was fixed but more services that were just as problematic were added – what’s the point?
I’ll pay for quality and ad free.
Jonathan Hopkins
· 1 year ago
me too ! see below
Jonathan Hopkins
· 1 year ago
I'd be willing to pay for the services I use - to keep them ad free, secure and 100% reliable. I recently ran a poll and 47% of people said they'd be willing to pay £12/$24 a year for Twitter, for example . . .
Reid
· 1 year ago
The feeling of entitlement for free is going to go away when companies who charge for services figure out how to make their products easier to purchase. I don't mind getting out the credit card for a good service, but with so many products, it's much more difficult to buy a service--and deal with the hassle of verification codes and other steps that are put in place to fight piracy--and so people just stop dealing with it altogether.
As DRM goes away from music, it's become much more attractive to go back to buying music. You know you're going to get a good product, and when you buy it, it's yours with no questions asked. The more companies just charge for it and relax about piracy (which is going to happen anyway), then the more people will be will to pay for services.
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
I agree that companies do indeed need to make it easier to purchase their services or products. One of my big bitch points is that not everyone in the world has a credit card - or even wants to use the one they have for online purchases.
Morgan
· 1 year ago
I think this extends into the real world with CDs and DVDs, people convincing themselves that since they don't like the price, or since the marginal cost in some future world approaches zero, that means it is OK to copy and steal it today.
Certain businesses can be sustained only by ads, but in general you're totally right. It's a new service and they've got to find a way to stay open.
For the most part I think the answer is to enjoy a bunch of clueless whiners and their strange world. Witness the international outrage over iPhone pricing, it's just great. You would never know they aren't being forced at gunpoint to buy it and the largest data plan.
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
There was a point where consumers could vote with their wallets. In the online world this is something that they don't have and with ad supported businesses they don't *need* to listen to us either
Helene K
· 1 year ago
Great post! It's naive to expect anything on the internet to be "free." Radio Paradise in Chico is "free" on the internet, but is listener supported. Twitter should charge the people who have the most subscribers, or followers, as they (or their companies) are who would benefit from the pool of electronic "ears."
J.T Dabbagian
· 1 year ago
I understand the point about needing to make a profit for Web 2.0, but imagine if everything cost money to do? You might end up pushing away more people than make a profit.
My thoughts: Either make a lite service that has half the features of the full, or a free full edition that's ad-supported.
Remember the email client Eudora? It had a free lite edition with no ads, a full edition with ads, and a full paid edition with no ads. It's a good model, and you still get your attention. Livejournal did something similar, I might add.
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
It's too bad that Eudora wasn't a better email client :)
Jim
· 1 year ago
I would post a comment, but i don't want to add to the expense of your website.
maybe you should charge people for each comment they make. Maybe 10 cents each, through paypal?
Someone
· 1 year ago
@Jonathan Hopkins
There's a HUGE difference between saying that you'd pay for a service, and actually paying. If 47% people say they'd pay, then 1-2% will actually pay. That's my experience anyway.
Dane Morgan | Niche Blogging
· 1 year ago
I think a lot of people are missing the point. Steven didn't say free should go away, he said the sense of entitlement that surrounds it needs to go away. A company that offers free services and a paid upgrade service is not betraying it's free service users. They are receiving value, and providing value to the extent that their activities help add value to the site for those who are paying for the upgrade and thus also paying for the free users as well.
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
Thanks Dane :)
That Software Guy
· 1 year ago
There is no limit to the entitlement mentality of open source users.
I think many of the services and apps people find indispensable on a day to day basis would suddenly seem less so if a bill came in the mail. 47% of people might say that they are willing to pay for Twitter, but I'm sure that number would drop when it was time to pony up the cash.
All these web services have really increased communications and productivity, but most people would find they don't really need them if they weren't free. I mean, who really cares what your friends are up to for $10 dollars a month.
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
I agree with you on this ... I don't think we'd see as many of these Web 2.0 style services if they had to have a business model beyond advertising
Dane Morgan | Niche Blogging
· 1 year ago
This would definite change the demographics of the users, but not necessarily lead to profitability.
And it depends on how you phrase the question. I wouldn't pay $10 a month for Twitter if I were there to see "what my friends were up too", but I wouldn't hesitate to pay for the service to keep tabs on what some people using it are up to, and more importantly, the casual and instant access it can provide to those people.
The atmosphere at twitter is such that some people can suddenly actually grab the attention of some people they never would have been able to otherwise.
barefootmeg
· 1 year ago
as we start to value our digital data more (and as we have more and more friends tell us about their dying hard drive disasters) i think people will start realizing that pony-ing up is worth the price.
on the other hand, paying several different companies to store several different kinds of data (photos, videos, blogs, recipes, etc.) is going to get old fast. because of that, i think that companies like multiply (which offer all of the above types of storage and more) are going to do well in the future. people will eventually realize that paying one fee for multiple services, neatly aggregated together in one easy to use package as multiply has, is well worth the minimal fee for premium service.
gregory
· 1 year ago
will always be more walls than ads ... the trick, how to get a lot of people making a bit of money ...
Brett Bodine
· 1 year ago
I can relate to this first hand. I create Firefox themes and it takes an enormous amount of time and patience. I decided to offer a free basic version that would continue to be available on Firefox AMO and would have minimal support and updating. I put a website together to offer my supported, fully skinned themes where people could download for $0.99 each.
I received some major resistance from some users who had this sense of entitlement and felt that nobody should ever have to pay for a browser theme because it was "free open source"
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
also these same people will go to iTunes and download a song but figure you should be pouring out all your creative juices for nothing .. yup it makes a lot of sense.
justin case
· 1 year ago
Finally!!! someone who understands. It goes back to the "it's worth more to someone if they actually PAY for it".... Flickr is a perfect example of how to do this. They offer the smaller "freebie" to get me in the door. I quickly ran out of space and 25 bucks a year was a decent deal....and there! You've now managed to actually create a BUSINESS MODEL in Web 2.0:)
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
maybe it helps to be of an age where actually paying for creative goods meant something :)
rogeriototh
· 1 year ago
By having Free and paid accounts you allow people to choose what kind of service they want. Having back the Premium accounts Multiply used to have is a smart move.
First time it had a paid account there, I was impelled to move from free account because of the step up I would have on the services.
This second round of Multiply Premium Services brings again a valuable service for a very reasonable price.
There will be always those who think everything should be free forever. However, always there will be those who look for more and they would be happy to paying for it.
If you are not there at Multiply, you do not know yet what is to share your life with your family and friends for REAL.
Steven Hodson
· 1 year ago
Roger I totlaly get the idea of having free and premium services and for the most part they are a great idea. However the *majority* of web users have come to expect that everything is free where they would never drream of walking into a bakery and taking a cake from the shelf while telling the owner not to worry the ads will pay for it. Yup that makes a lot of sense.
Jonathan Hopkins
· 1 year ago
@Someone @Mike Agreed - the figure in real life would presumably be lower . . . but, why not ask people and I think you may be surprised. $24 is not a lot of money for the value I get out of Twitter. Compare that to the one off cost for buying a small piece if extremely useful software. OR look at the cost of an iPhone app.
I think the best thing to do is engage with the community and ask them. If you don't ask you;re not going to know and there's always the potential to something smarter a la Radiohead - a blind survey of the amount the community is willing to pay that results in an average figure to consider.
There has to be a better way as advertising in its current format is clearly dead/dying.
Linda
· 1 year ago
As a result of Multiply's Premium Service I have been able to cancel two other services I used. I not only paid a monthly fee to each, but both had serious limitations With Multiply's Premium Service, I consolidated into one service for one LOW fee of $19.95 a year. Free gets you a hotmail account and a messenger service. Big Whoop. I need more than that in my personal and business life.
I value my offline and online content, and am willing to pay for someone else to value it as well. Ads? What ads? I never knew they were there when I first joined Multiply til someone told me. Because I didn't know I couldn't see them. Adblockers and scriptblockers are the norm now.
Try renting a storage unit for your furniture for free and see how far you get. The internet is different... how?
Jason Rothbart
· 1 year ago
Steven,
Great post. I just wrote a related post on the cost of free to the user. I'm forced to ignore a blizzard of ads or give up my information to who knows what in order to use "free" services. It also takes me longer to do things because there are often marketing gates/distractions that I must pass through to get things done. Even though it is "free" in the sense that I don't pay for it, it definitely isn't. Thanks for starting a great discussion.
this is crazy, of course it should be free - just like health care - it must be free, that is socialism...let the big companies and rich people pay for everything...tax them more, i can't afford this, i won't pay for it, we'll protest, we'll march on Washington, we'll break down the firewalls, this is insanity, just talking about it...it must be free free free! I will bring free internet to the world, to the masses, to the underprivileged, the downtrodden, the less fortunate, this is our time...free for all!
All Comments
You had to have seen that coming. Seriously… you are absolutely correct. My biggest gripe is with Tribe.net
It is constantly down but I get some GREAT referrals for both business and personal wants and needs. I would happily pay a membership fee if they
a) Sold the company to a corporation that knew what to do with – Are the Russians interested? HINT HINT
b) They get their act together and make the site stable.
I paid their $5 a month and found NOTHING was fixed but more services that were just as problematic were added – what’s the point?
I’ll pay for quality and ad free.
As DRM goes away from music, it's become much more attractive to go back to buying music. You know you're going to get a good product, and when you buy it, it's yours with no questions asked. The more companies just charge for it and relax about piracy (which is going to happen anyway), then the more people will be will to pay for services.
Certain businesses can be sustained only by ads, but in general you're totally right. It's a new service and they've got to find a way to stay open.
For the most part I think the answer is to enjoy a bunch of clueless whiners and their strange world. Witness the international outrage over iPhone pricing, it's just great. You would never know they aren't being forced at gunpoint to buy it and the largest data plan.
My thoughts: Either make a lite service that has half the features of the full, or a free full edition that's ad-supported.
Remember the email client Eudora? It had a free lite edition with no ads, a full edition with ads, and a full paid edition with no ads. It's a good model, and you still get your attention. Livejournal did something similar, I might add.
maybe you should charge people for each comment they make. Maybe 10 cents each, through paypal?
There's a HUGE difference between saying that you'd pay for a service, and actually paying. If 47% people say they'd pay, then 1-2% will actually pay. That's my experience anyway.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9972632-16.ht...
All these web services have really increased communications and productivity, but most people would find they don't really need them if they weren't free. I mean, who really cares what your friends are up to for $10 dollars a month.
And it depends on how you phrase the question. I wouldn't pay $10 a month for Twitter if I were there to see "what my friends were up too", but I wouldn't hesitate to pay for the service to keep tabs on what some people using it are up to, and more importantly, the casual and instant access it can provide to those people.
The atmosphere at twitter is such that some people can suddenly actually grab the attention of some people they never would have been able to otherwise.
on the other hand, paying several different companies to store several different kinds of data (photos, videos, blogs, recipes, etc.) is going to get old fast. because of that, i think that companies like multiply (which offer all of the above types of storage and more) are going to do well in the future. people will eventually realize that paying one fee for multiple services, neatly aggregated together in one easy to use package as multiply has, is well worth the minimal fee for premium service.
I received some major resistance from some users who had this sense of entitlement and felt that nobody should ever have to pay for a browser theme because it was "free open source"
Flickr is a perfect example of how to do this. They offer the smaller "freebie" to get me in the door. I quickly ran out of space and 25 bucks a year was a decent deal....and there! You've now managed to actually create a BUSINESS MODEL in Web 2.0:)
First time it had a paid account there, I was impelled to move from free account because of the step up I would have on the services.
This second round of Multiply Premium Services brings again a valuable service for a very reasonable price.
There will be always those who think everything should be free forever. However, always there will be those who look for more and they would be happy to paying for it.
If you are not there at Multiply, you do not know yet what is to share your life with your family and friends for REAL.
I think the best thing to do is engage with the community and ask them. If you don't ask you;re not going to know and there's always the potential to something smarter a la Radiohead - a blind survey of the amount the community is willing to pay that results in an average figure to consider.
There has to be a better way as advertising in its current format is clearly dead/dying.
I value my offline and online content, and am willing to pay for someone else to value it as well. Ads? What ads? I never knew they were there when I first joined Multiply til someone told me. Because I didn't know I couldn't see them. Adblockers and scriptblockers are the norm now.
Try renting a storage unit for your furniture for free and see how far you get. The internet is different... how?
Great post. I just wrote a related post on the cost of free to the user. I'm forced to ignore a blizzard of ads or give up my information to who knows what in order to use "free" services. It also takes me longer to do things because there are often marketing gates/distractions that I must pass through to get things done. Even though it is "free" in the sense that I don't pay for it, it definitely isn't. Thanks for starting a great discussion.
Jason
http://groupswim.wordpress.com/2008/07/21/what-...