This is the first article on Mashable that I have read all the way through, for a long time.
A well written and informative article that just goes to show the difficulties and challenges involved in developing and maintaining a successful online community.
- Martin Reed
Adam Ostrow
· 2 years ago
thanks, glad you enjoyed it :)
Nir
· 2 years ago
1. Well written article.
2. Key take outs for me:
i) communities who work with and for their users take the right approach (proven by how face book handled their 'revolt')
but:
ii) if users really like the service, they will keep using it even if the community managers do not really come forward to their user's needs (as shown by the MySpace example).
Adam Ostrow
· 2 years ago
Definitely. Your second point seems to be right on with MySpace. I also think part of the reason these episodes don't seem to hurt them is that the "switching costs" are high. Once you've used MySpace for a while and invested countless hours in customizing your profile and adding friends, moving to a competing service is too much of a hassle.
alicetiara
· 2 years ago
I agree that the overhead is too great right now for users to move to MySpace, but that doesn't mean it will always be the case. Right now, people are "stuck" using MySpace and they know it - I surveyed a few thousand users about SNS and overwhelmingly they saw MySpace as "tacky" and "hard to use". The switching costs are keeping users right now, but the status quo changes rapidly.
Friendster was at the top of the heap until their outages and response time caused the migration to MySpace. All it takes is a smart company to create some really efficient switching tools combined with another major MySpace cockup, and they could find themselves in a similar position. However, it's unlikely we'll see a mass migration. It's more likely that small subcultural/niche populations will leave one at a time until something else becomes the next cool thing and we see that replace MySpace in the popular consciousness.
csven
· 2 years ago
"Recently, ABC Island, a commercial venue within the game, was largely destroyed and littered with graffiti. The motives of the perpetrators are not entirely clear, but in a game that attempts to simulate real life, parent company Linden Labs will surely face an increasing number of complex community management issues going forward."
Last night I went to a corporate island and from the UI could *immediately* tell the virtual land settings (which they control) were improperly set, allowing a repeat of the ABC Island griefing.
The reason this can happen boils down to simple carelessness. Nothing more. And when people get careless and allow others to exert control, someone will almost certainly do just that. Seems to me to be an issue with human nature more than a Linden Lab issue.
The real concern isn't Second Life, imo. It's Second Life-like issues mapped onto a more immersive internet ( http://blog.rebang.com/?p=241 ).
Volkher Hofmann
· 2 years ago
"[...] However, if you like to play it safe, the lesson learned from these virtual uprisings is to always engage your users in the decision-making process and be transparent in your policies.[...]"
Exactly.
The real question is though at which point this becomes impossible or if this is at all feasible if you have any business interests. If companies dependent on shareholders are any indication, globilization has shown us all too well that those do not even have the fraction of power or influence they thought they had. The more shareholders there are, the less power there is to go around.
The old theory that interests will only be furthered if they are well-organized and have a certain degree of real-world power they can wield because of that organization, all too often shows that when revolt erupts, it is short-lived and, in the end, based on shaky organization (very few take the responsibility, many jump on the band wagon). If that doesn't change, each revolt will remain a flash in the pan and nothing more than a feeble warning sign of what could be achieved.
Besides that - and I don't think anyone is really writing about that all too much - the real lesson to be learned here is that users should not become too dependent on any social network or forum they are a member of.
The real threat is then that users can be faced with closed doors, and many are too afraid and too dependent to risk that.
My 2c.
Adam Ostrow
· 2 years ago
I think big, public companies are also trying to involve users more, at least from a PR perspective. The best example of this is all of the "community evangelists" you see being hired by the likes of Microsoft and Adobe. While shareholders have the power to remove executives that aren’t performing, it’s still mostly up to the companies to decide which direction to take their products.
mike
· 2 years ago
The worst online "community", one that has been in existance longer than any other, Yahoo! Finance message boards. To see what a mess it has become check out the Yahoo! Finance LookSmart board (LOOK) if you want to see a combination of hate, paid bashers, libel, spammers and character assasination. It's what becomes of communities without moderation of enforcement of TOS. Lord Of The Flies online, and an example and warning to other online communities.
Volkher Hofmann
· 2 years ago
@Adam Yes, but how much of the power "accepted" (don't know how to phrase this correctly) by the management is actually appeasement of the masses?
@Mike "Lord Of The Flies online". Great one. Gotta remember that. Went straight into my "quotes to shelve for later use" drawer. :)
Volkher Hofmann
· 2 years ago
[Off topic] It would be great in these comments if an empty line (line breaks) in the comment entry form would actually divide two paragraphs with an empty line instead of compacting them.
Pete Cashmore
· 2 years ago
Yeah, I noticed that. Will speak to the designer.
Volkher Hofmann
· 2 years ago
Which just shows that user input can affect change (or speed it up). ;)
Are you guys switching to partial feed? I hope not
And yes, a very nice article.
Pete Cashmore
· 2 years ago
No, just the effect of the "more" tag - also carries over to the feeds, although we wish it wouldn't.
Beau Gunderson
· 2 years ago
Another example of this is JotSpot users--they're mighty pissed that Google hasn't done anything with the product since acquiring it and has been absolutely silent regarding its fate. I think they'd benefit from some radical transparency.
Darian
· 2 years ago
We had similar problems at Tribe.net, one of the first social networks in the US. When we realized how much porn was being distributed and consumed on the site as well as hate speech that went against our terms of use we came down harshly on members. Our board and counsel made us take a more conservative approach than probably we would have liked. The backlash from the vocal minority was difficult and they essentially helped ensure the community wouldn't be welcoming to those who wished to have a simple social network but didn't adhere to the anything goes philosophy. What was orginally built as an all inclusive inviting environment swiftly became a closed exclusive environment.
We even tried to create a "member council" to help address business issues that affected the community. Turns out that vocal group of people didn't actually want to take the time to be part of a council.
Granted our board and CEO did a variety of things to exacerbate the problems, but in the end, the company wasn't nearly as successful (as compared to a facebook or myspace) as it could have been and much of that was related to the existing members' actions.
From my experience at Tribe, communities can often take on a life of their own that wasn't forseen and difficult to steer. There are no easy answers but upfront conversation and laying out the business issues at least helped some of our members understand how hard some of the decisions we had to make were. In the end, turning those vocal opponents, who, by the way, love the service, into problem solvers and peace makers can help.
All Comments
A well written and informative article that just goes to show the difficulties and challenges involved in developing and maintaining a successful online community.
- Martin Reed
2. Key take outs for me:
i) communities who work with and for their users take the right approach (proven by how face book handled their 'revolt')
but:
ii) if users really like the service, they will keep using it even if the community managers do not really come forward to their user's needs (as shown by the MySpace example).
Friendster was at the top of the heap until their outages and response time caused the migration to MySpace. All it takes is a smart company to create some really efficient switching tools combined with another major MySpace cockup, and they could find themselves in a similar position. However, it's unlikely we'll see a mass migration. It's more likely that small subcultural/niche populations will leave one at a time until something else becomes the next cool thing and we see that replace MySpace in the popular consciousness.
Last night I went to a corporate island and from the UI could *immediately* tell the virtual land settings (which they control) were improperly set, allowing a repeat of the ABC Island griefing.
The reason this can happen boils down to simple carelessness. Nothing more. And when people get careless and allow others to exert control, someone will almost certainly do just that. Seems to me to be an issue with human nature more than a Linden Lab issue.
The real concern isn't Second Life, imo. It's Second Life-like issues mapped onto a more immersive internet ( http://blog.rebang.com/?p=241 ).
Exactly.
The real question is though at which point this becomes impossible or if this is at all feasible if you have any business interests. If companies dependent on shareholders are any indication, globilization has shown us all too well that those do not even have the fraction of power or influence they thought they had. The more shareholders there are, the less power there is to go around.
The old theory that interests will only be furthered if they are well-organized and have a certain degree of real-world power they can wield because of that organization, all too often shows that when revolt erupts, it is short-lived and, in the end, based on shaky organization (very few take the responsibility, many jump on the band wagon). If that doesn't change, each revolt will remain a flash in the pan and nothing more than a feeble warning sign of what could be achieved.
Besides that - and I don't think anyone is really writing about that all too much - the real lesson to be learned here is that users should not become too dependent on any social network or forum they are a member of.
The real threat is then that users can be faced with closed doors, and many are too afraid and too dependent to risk that.
My 2c.
To see what a mess it has become check out the Yahoo! Finance LookSmart board (LOOK) if you want to see a combination of hate, paid bashers, libel, spammers and character assasination.
It's what becomes of communities without moderation of enforcement of TOS.
Lord Of The Flies online, and an example and warning to other online communities.
@Mike "Lord Of The Flies online". Great one. Gotta remember that. Went straight into my "quotes to shelve for later use" drawer. :)
Nice site you have here. Will be around.
I hope not
And yes, a very nice article.
We even tried to create a "member council" to help address business issues that affected the community. Turns out that vocal group of people didn't actually want to take the time to be part of a council.
Granted our board and CEO did a variety of things to exacerbate the problems, but in the end, the company wasn't nearly as successful (as compared to a facebook or myspace) as it could have been and much of that was related to the existing members' actions.
From my experience at Tribe, communities can often take on a life of their own that wasn't forseen and difficult to steer. There are no easy answers but upfront conversation and laying out the business issues at least helped some of our members understand how hard some of the decisions we had to make were. In the end, turning those vocal opponents, who, by the way, love the service, into problem solvers and peace makers can help.