Mashable - The Social Media Guide - Latest Comments in The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Dave Gray — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 06:27:06 -0000

@Andrew A. Personally I think that rather than have an awareness campaign - what is needed is for "feeds" to become invisible or seamless.

For example, love it or hate it the best service for a new person to podcasting is iTunes. Why? Because they are subscribing to feeds and listening to enclosures but they don't realize they are. The software does it all for them behind the interface.

Sure there are problems with iTunes. Like calling them "subscriptions" and the platform mainly offering paid content - users may think they need to pay for podcasts. Also the failure of iTunes in discovery. Featured shows and popular items get the most attention - they may not be aware of the huge number of shows on iTunes. Some but not all my beefs with iTunes.

BUT iTunes accomplishes what most other feed readers and podcast subscribing services fail at. Wack FeedDemon in front of a newbie and they would not know what to do with it.

Subscribing, viewing and listening to enclosures and feeds needs to be seamless with software to make the technology accessible.

As far as the terminology, anything new needs to be learned and podcasting is no different. For a start - What else do we call it? Secondly, I consider myself a podcasting evangelist, and that is to who ever will listen. I don't care where I am or what I am doing. If I can talk about podcasting and new media; I do.

We are the campaign!

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Andrew A. Peterson — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 05:19:39 -0000

I think one of the biggest challenges to the adoption of podcasting by the mainstream is name "podcasting" and other misleading terminology about the technology.

It seems to me that to the average joe, podcasting is something you have to have an iPod in order to take advantage of. And if you do have an iPod, it's scary to go to the "iTunes Store" and "Subscribe" to things. And of course, where on earth are people supposed to learn about non-apple podcast directories? It doesn't help matters much that as mainstream radio programs increasingly plug their own podcasted versions of their shows, they generally default to using the same counterproductive lingo: "you can download our show to your ipod..." (which means you need to have an Apple mp3 player) or "Look for us in the iTunes Store" (which sounds like you'd have to pay for the content)

The average not-too-savvy user has no idea what a "feed" is.

While working with a fairly successful video podcast, it was really striking to me to find out that the majority of our regular viewers were actually "checking back" to the site for updates rather than sitting back and letting RSS do all the work for them. Seems like the public's general lack of understanding about RSS/Atom, how podcasting works, along with a general cynicism about the Web and fear of having things download automatically (thanks to PC virus riffraff), has kept podcasting in the closet.

A feed-awareness campaign is needed if public perception is going to change. The lingo needs to change.

I think this is problem for all feeds, not just ones that serve up media files via Enclosures (podcasts).

I'd love to see some real data on RSS/Atom adoption in general (mashable?). I assume feed subscription adoption in general is not distributed along with the presence of broadband connections. I would bet that mostly, feedreaders and podcast aggregators are being used by people in major cities. It's a cultural thing. Some people know about it, most people don't.
If you live in the suburbs, you're less likely to use 'live bookmarks' subscribe to podcasts or use a feedreader than you are if you live in the city.

Am I wrong? Numbers, please.

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Mark \ — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:59:16 -0000

Mignon: you bring up some very excellent points. For a lot of podcasters, with more of an entertainment focus than a utilitarian one, selling swag is a great way to bring in revenue on a show.

Using podcasting as an attention tool to supplement a business is a great idea, as well.

My focus is both intentionally and unintentionally limited in this article. I'm a news and politics man, and it's difficult to get the groundswell support for shows in our genre that can easily be attained by folks such as Keith and the Girl or Daily Affirmations. Hence, my scope is a bit more limited in how I see the podcasting world.

Additionally, Winer, I think touched on these topics fairly well. I could have gone on another 2000 words or so and mentioned these things, but I real wanted to really come down on what I think were the really important failings of podcasting at the moment.

You're aboslutely right about the ADM, though. Hopefully they'll bring more ability for the podcasting business to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I'm watching them very closely and expect great things from them.

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Mignon Fogarty — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:51:27 -0000

The idea that the only way to make money podcasting is by selling podcast ads is something I hear almost every time I give a talk or just hang out with fellow podcasters; and I believe it is a misconception.

My network has been very fortunate to have the support of great ad brokers and we currently have ads running in all our podcasts. Donâ€™t get me wrong -- we're thrilled -- but all our eggs are not in the advertising basket. A significant portion of our revenue also comes from licensing the podcasts and transcripts, sales of books related to the podcasts, speaking fees, and to a lesser extent, other products such as T-shirts.

Interest from advertisers seems to be picking up, but revenue from the other sources is picking up faster. In my experience, if you create quality content, businesses want it.

We are not the only people who have realized that it is limiting to focus exclusively on advertising. I hear other podcasters are making money selling products such as music, T-shirts, and study aids; writing books; and generally promoting their other activities. For example, Len from Jawbone Radio seems to have successfully used his podcast to launch a custom art-comic business called â€œMonster by Mailâ€ (http://www.monsterbymail.com/) and Christopher Penn seems to be successfully using his Financial Aid Podcast (http://www.financialaidpodc... to nurture a variety of business activities. Podcasters who want podcasting to be their job need to think creatively about everything they have to offer and what their audience might find valuable. Most successful traditional entertainers write books, give talks, and sell products. (Oh yeah, and don't neglect your website. It's the face of your business.)

I should also mention that the members of the new Association for Downloadable Media (http://www.downloadablemedi... are making a serious effort to standardize podcast advertising and traffic measurement in a way that will make podcasts more appealing to advertisers.

We need to face the reality that large advertisers are interested in large numbers of ad impressions. For shows that don't have millions of downloads, the best way to attract large advertisers is to join with other podcasters so you do reach an advertiser-worthy traffic level. Then ad agencies can make one big purchase (as they are used to doing) instead of 20 (or more) small purchases. And for small podcasters to join together in this way, they need to be offering the same kind of ads and using the same measurement tools.

In short, there are already many podcasters who have, as you say, â€œdecided to make a real go of it, are organizing and fixing the industry, and who make their media palatable and accessible to the general public.â€ As with any new industry, it takes work, time, and an open mind.

Mignon Fogarty

Founder, The Quick and Dirty Tips Network

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Mark \ — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:37:13 -0000

Keep in mind, I'm running on a PC... I have a feeling that not as much effort was put into the PC as the Mac version. Granted, the desktop machine I'm referring to isn't exactly a powerhouse, but, as I said, it's a heck of a lot more powerful than the machine years ago that could effectively load winamp in under a second.

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Joe Shoemaker — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:32:36 -0000

Podcasting is everywhere. I see all the main sites and media companies have podcasting. Espn has a podcenter. In the tech world folks like Cameron Reilly, John Furrier and Adam Curry have moved the effort towards making it a real business.

I totally agree with you that the big problem is that the ad model is broken for podcasters.

Great article

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Dave Gray — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:27:46 -0000

While I agree with most of your remarks especially regarding paying what a podcaster's effort is worth in addition to the domination of comercial podcasts not leaving any room for the independants. And indeed for companies to be interested in advertising on your show. I do think that you are not quite on the mark with podcasters not giving it a real shot and making some noise about it.

I belong to The Podcast Network based in Australia, our CEO (Cameron Reilly) tried without success to get funding both here and in San Fran. He did this loudly and made as much noise (and continues to do so) as a network and individual can. The network has also had mainstream press in major publications both here and overseas. It is not like potential investors should think of the network as a new entity.

There is no reason why this network should not be funded like any other start-up. Which I might add it is not. This means that yes, it is holding it's own. But everything was funded privately from small donations to our fearless CEO using his own cash. So why does "X" company which springs up out of nowhere get a few million (or more) and is gone the next year and yet an established podcast network with over over 70 podcasts has it tough with zip and downright refusal. I just don't understand that at all.

I guess we are back to the unwillingness of business to invest in a "new" (unknown?) medium. Plus we are a bunch of "hippy" minded podcasters.

I agree though a few tweaks to how this whole thing works and podcasts will be in the fore once more. When that will happen who knows and what it will be is anyone's guess. I am here for the long haul. I would love to throw my day job in.

Interesting insights into the state of affairs of podcasting.

BTW I would look into that minute and a half load time for iTunes! I can have a bunch of stuff open and Firefox and mine loads in less than 5 seconds. Minute and a half, come on.

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

tech4novices — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:57:15 -0000

sure dave wont approve our comment hence i am writing here. what happened to scripting not featuring on techmeme?

Anyway jokes apart what are your thoughts about chubby ?

I posted the same thing on LP too

Re: The Current State of Podcasting: Hippie

Bob J. — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:21:56 -0000

Wow, nice little rant. Like so many bloggers you do a wonderful job at listing problems without actually having to DO anything about them.

Congrats.