DISQUS

jkeirnswanson · 7 months ago

I've never understood the validity of any ruling that would force Microsoft to include competitors' products in their operating system. I'm by no means a MS defender, but why can't they only include their product inside their product? It's not like it is ridiculously difficult to fire up IE, download Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Flock, whatever, and switch to that.

GM cars only come with their On-Star product, but shouldn't judges force them to install Carshield? Mac OS X only comes with Safari installed--what gives? I have a PC laptop and I installed Xandros Presto (a Linux iteration), and it only comes with Firefox AND it prevents me from installing any other browser except that crap Konqueror. My iPhone only has Safari unless I jailbreak it.

And on and on.

If you do a fresh install of Windows, it will load IE and it will make IE your default browser. If you're smart enough not to use IE in the first place, your smart enough to fix this problem. Cry me a river.

socialnerdia · 7 months ago

Microsoft is just CONSISTENT. Netscape complained too. Mozilla needs to work on its browser instead of make obvious accusations.

And regarding market share, who says you only need to use one?

Sure, the default is the most used but not the only one..

I use IE for Hotmail, Firefox for Twitter, Chrome for Gmail, etc...

Arron Davies · 7 months ago

This sounds a bit sad but if IE is set as default on installation its no crying matter we can just change it. another story over shot. what happened to the old mashable?

So where can I get a version of windows 7 from? (that,s a better story)

Tom · 7 months ago

I don't get why this is 'shady'. It's Microsoft's OS - don't they have every right to have their own browser set as 'default' in an install used by users who probably don't even know the difference in the first place?

Pallab · 7 months ago

This is because Microsoft Windows is a monopoly. And that means they have unique power to affect the choices that the user means. If not carefully control this can very well crush competition and reduce choices which in turn will aid in sustaining the monopoly.

Television Spy · 7 months ago

I don't really see a problem, first of this is a release candidate - meaning it's not the final product. They have to work with what they've got.

Also in terms of licenses they can't exactly bundle Firefox with it, without having to go in to talks with them etc. Also I don't really see this as a problem as they have to include a web browser by default - may as well be their own. Not including a web browser with your os is tantamount to os suicide, you have to include something for people to get access to the Internet.

Lastly people who want to switch browsers can just as well download and install another web browser. This seems more like people who just want to complain about Microsoft unnecessarily, the same people who want to use Firefox and Opera will be smart enough to use IE to download one of the browsers. It's not hard and it's really not going take that much more time.

Anyways, I don't see how this is different from Safari being the default browser on OSx, it makes sense and it's their product so why wouldn't you promote your own stuff.

Jason Rybka · 7 months ago

Tom, I am in agreement with you. I am a huge fan of Firefox (my default browser; has been for years), however, I find it cheeky that Opera and Mozilla (and anyone/thing) say it's wrong for Microsoft to include their own software in their own operating system. It makes PERFECT sense to include their own software in their own operating system. It makes NO sense however, for them not to.
I hate to say it, but I think it's more out of spite that they are complaining to Microsoft. They (M & O) know that they don't stand a chance in taking over the market whilst ever IE is shipped out with Windows (because as we all know: there's more novice users than pro--so of course novice users will stick to what they're given). I also believe it's a little publicity too.

In my opinion Microsoft have EVERY RIGHT to ship IE with Windows; it makes perfect sense. Business isn't fair, it's business.

- Do note: I am no MS fan-boy, in fact I'm moving over to the dark side (Mac) soon so don't fall under any illusion that I'm being biased.

[Apologies for poor English ...not had much sleep and well, too tired to care.]

Justin Broderick · 7 months ago

This seems like a bit of a nit-picky complaint mostly because people who are savvy enough about browser choice are going to take the 4 seconds to boot up Firefox or Opera and make it the default browser. While users who don't care or never really cared are going to take what's put directly in front of them anyway.

Barry · 7 months ago

Everything Microsoft touches automatically fails before it even launches.
I can't think of a more 'uncool' company apart from Facebook and Myspace

Circle1ne · 7 months ago

That's not true. As a web developer I do have contempt for Internet Explorer's lack of WC3 Standards Compliance but aside from that, they're success is their biggest weakness. Vista got trashed hard all across the board before people got to even use it. MAC did a good job leading that movement. But as you see the Mohave Experiment worked beautifully. It showed just how "me too" society is.

I agree with Justin that this is more nit-picking from competitors scared they'll lose a little market share. To be honest MS Vista is an excellent OS and I'm considering upgrading to Win 7 but not sure how that compares to the Vista Ultimate I'm currently running.

And yes MS can package their browser with their OS for as long as they'd like. It takes less that 2mins to switch back to your original browser and anyone who is not using IE is probably savvy enough to switch back to FF or Opera if they want to.

jadm5000 · 6 months ago

Amen!

Matt Hill · 7 months ago

Wow. This is no big deal. Anyone installing a RC version of Windows is hardly going to find it a challenge to switch back to their existing non-MS browser.

sdb · 7 months ago

i agree, this is no big deal. it's a test release!

gagahput3ra · 7 months ago

It's an RC, and i personally doubt the masses, which we will assume "the dumb masses" that will not switch to any browsers other than the default one from the o/s, use an RC product.

Only the tech-aware crowds use the RC, and i'm pretty sure by now every tech-aware person in the world also aware that every version of IE's crappy, so there's that. Nobody will choose IE in Win7.

flow_hoe · 6 months ago

You do know what an RC is, right? It's a Release Candidate. Unless additional bugs are found (or something like this comes up), it's the exact same version that Microsoft will be stamping onto CDs (sans the expiration date and "Evaluation copy" text).

If Mozilla and Opera don't make a fuss right now, they'll have lost their chance and the issue will still be present in the final version.

okbah · 7 months ago

I didn't get this action despite I choose express installation and upgrade from vista!

Daniel Buca · 7 months ago

People are overreacting with this issue.
I'm a firefox user and, first of all, would not use the express option, and, second, if I would use the express setup I would first backup my firefox data and then make a fresh install and restore the firefox backup.

I bet that if it wasn't Microsoft doing this, nobody would've said anything.

Circle1ne · 7 months ago

"I bet that if it wasn't Microsoft doing this, nobody would've said anything."

Preach!

Daniel Buca · 7 months ago

@jkeirnswanson : very good point there.
Nobody loves MS but this is really too much :) .

I'm really thinking that, one day, google will suffer from the same things as MS does now.

Rob · 7 months ago

While I generally don't like the packaging deals pushed by Microsoft, in a RC it might not be that bad, since you are testing the Microsoft stuff, aren't you?

However, I hate it that Microoft's Outlook becomes the default mail client on every 'Patch Tuesday', if the regular updates contain Outlook updates. I use Outlook for my secondary mail accounts, and use something else for the primary account.

Even worse is that Apple changes the file associations when it's pushing updates for their crappy Quicktime media player, after which I either have to manually reset my file associations or open the different other players to restore the stuff so it works right (and fast, since Apple stuff is incredibly slow starting up.

I don't understand how this deal about IE is brought as being a big deal, while nobody seems to make a big deal out of the forced update hijacks by Microsoft, Apple, and others.

Robert · 7 months ago

I think most people who would download Win7 would probably just change their browser back. Those who didn't, were probably using IE anyway.

Nevertheless, happy day when MS is out of business because of opensource and netbooks.

Wayne · 4 months ago

"Nevertheless, happy day when MS is out of business because of opensource and netbooks."

Don't expect that day happening anytime soon then, because most businesses wont consider moving from full blown Desktops/Laptops with Microsoft products on them. Whether it's right or wrong for business to be so closed minded isn't really the point, just that they are. I've seen very few companies using any opensource products outside of their IT departments.

socialmouths · 7 months ago

Microsoft simply don't understand the game, aside from all the tech stuff, their strategies are based on old marketing values and they don't see that today more than ever, the user has full control of your brand. The success of Firefox is not only technical, there is a culture behind it and an underdog story that the user has put where it is today.

Kent · 2 months ago

Wrong.

Why on earth can't Microsoft make their own product as default on their own OS?

Σχολή Χορού · 7 months ago

That's an old story witch reminds me of my first web browser, Netscape Navigator. History repeats itself but this time we have a much weaker Microsoft and a very strong Firefox. Lets see what will happen.

c · 7 months ago

Whats so different between that and any third party program that takes over images,videos and whatever else when installed, (cough, apple, cough).

Mpm · 7 months ago

Every third party browser sets itself to default. When installing Firefox, the box is already checked to make it default. If I use express setup in IE I'm probably going to to click through the install of Firefox too, leaving that box checked. This is a non-issue.

poss · 7 months ago

gotta say.
I'm big on browser choice.
It is seriously a much bigger deal to me than it shuld be.
I pretty much hate IE users.

But lets face it, microsoft is gunnu do what it can to advertise its own products.
Surely there's nothing wrong with that?

Nate · 7 months ago

What a silly post. What do you expect them to do? IE8 is a fantastic browser in its own right. Take a look around the net, it has been lauded as the most secure browser out there amongst Chrome, Opera, Firefox, Safari...it is, at the very least, debatable. Amongst other things I think people should give it to Microsoft for finally getting there butt in gear and providing software that actually works like it should. This is coming from a Jackalope user...

Mark · 7 months ago

One of the first things I do on every computer I use is download Firefox. I don't use IE.

Mike · 7 months ago

Wow, in the scheme of shady things that Microsoft tries, this is pretty insignificant. People really care about this? Just change it back you spoiled bastards.

Scott Welch · 7 months ago

I went to the Toyota dealership the the other day to look at a new car. I was shocked and offended that the sales person did not offer a default engine from Kia or Honda. How dare he insist that his product only be focused on his engines.

What is the world coming to when a company wants to insist that you use all of their options that come with their manufactured product, haven't they heard about opensource cars.

Point: Why does a company that spends its own money to develop a product have to include options that give their competitors an advantage. Free market society, the reason everyone complains about Microsoft is because they are the biggest, not always the best. But I installed a copy of Linux the other day and I wanted to shoot myself. If you love command lines then more power to ya, but for the rest of the "Real World", we like us some GUI and are willing to put up with the problems for consistency and ease of use.

We appreciate that the geeks make it possible for the rest of us to enjoy the technology, we are grateful, but please stop with the Anti-Microsoft banter, Linux maybe a great server, but Bill has made it possible for everyone to have a desktop OS that works 99.9% of the time. Let's not forget, the security problems with Windows come from command line geeks that are trying to destroy your computer. So who is the problem here, I think that the people that write the viruses and exploit the security issue are, so get a girlfriend and you won't have the time to hack Bill and you probably won't be as pissed about the evil conspiracies atround you.

Scott Welch · 7 months ago

Oh, yah I didn't see an option for any other browser but Firefox when I installed Ubuntu, bastards!

Scott Welch · 7 months ago

I am a developer and I have not found another browser other than IE and Safari that can render a decent web font, so if you like choppy fonts, which 99% of all web content is presented as text, then use the others.

Just another case of geeks with no creativity or design skills complaining because they are the ugly ducklings and the Pretty people have all the good clothes and hot girls. Firefox and Google should hre a graphics designer and fire some of those self proclaimed uber geeks.

trinest · 7 months ago

The point is- who cares?

gnsfgnfhn · 7 months ago

Mac comes with a bunch of apps (Safari, iLife etc), ready to be used, provided by the creator of the OS. and it works great, gives a good customer experience, so users are satisfied - they want their computer to work, not to give some deep thought about philosophical questions.
Windows, on the other hand, must not inclue a music player nor web browser because someone complains about that. And customers get frustrated because it seems that "nothing" comes with Windows, they've got so musch work to do just to make it work. And they want it to be ready to work, like Mac does, not to think about deep questions of universe and competition.
That's the point. forget Mozilla and Opera. They do not care about customer experience, they are just trying to prevent MSFT from doing anything, even if that kills them all.
As for "standards"... They change. If someone produces a standard that is constattly against software that covers more than 90% market share, we've got to as ourselves - is it easier to push maningless global change of everything, even if it kills us all, or to tweak a standard to be in line with reality?

Raoul Widman · 7 months ago

While this is pretty typical behavior for Microsoft I don't think a true Firefox user is going to decide to test this Beta and leave Internet Exploder as the default browser ! Anyone tech savvy enough to go with this Beta launch is likely bright enough to still think for himself !

Rob · 7 months ago

They have been warned before. The European Union will fine them big bucks if they don't change it immediately.

Anthony Aziz · 7 months ago

Is it really that big of a deal? Anyone who already has an alternate browser will immediately open it up, see "this is not your default browser" message, and change it. Sure it's annoying - but what the hell is Windows if not annoying?

And I'd personally not like to see any other browser distributed with Windows. Not because I like IE, but because I know they'd somehow screw it up, and I'd have a toolbar or some goofy extension installed.

brodie7838 · 7 months ago

I also don't understand why this is shady. While IE might not be the greatest browser, it is a Microsoft product, and so they are going to install it on their OS.

It's just like most of the utilities that come with Windows, there's a default, and it's always a Microsoft product, because they support it. Microsoft can't very well be pre-installing non M$ products into their OS's; people would scream.
All OS's have a default browser of one kind or another: Macs have Safari, Linux has a few open source browsers like Mozilla and Ephiphany.

Any modern OS HAS to have a default web browser on it for it to be functional. If there weren't a web browser on your new PC, how would you (especially average users) go download Firefox, or Opera? You wouldn't really be able to....

JadoJodo · 7 months ago

I agree. And it's not like it's particularly difficult to change the setting. The fact is, you paid for a Microsoft product, and guess what!?! You get all that comes with it. If a user knows about Firefox, they either know someone with computer skills or can install it themselves.

graphicartist2k5 · 7 months ago

here's a thought: go to control panel, add/remove programs, select internet explorer 8, and delete it from your computer. problem solved. at least, that's how it has worked on windows xp. and you know what else? when firefox is installed, a box appears asking you if you want to make firefox your default browser! all you have to do is......wait for it............CLICK ON THE CHECK BOX THAT SAYS "OK, I WANT TO USE FIREFOX AS MY DEFAULT BROWSER!" it seriously is not that hard of a thing.

Alex · 7 months ago

Not only is it well within their rights- It's really inconsequential. People aren't browser-agnostic- On anyone's system, there's one browser with all their bookmarks, the right set of plugins, everything laid out just like they want... And there's maybe a couple other browsers that came with the system or they took for a test drive, or they keep around for compatibility reasons (windows update used to be impossible in firefox, for instance). If somebody's set up with firefox, one behind-the-scenes-registry-change isn't going to change their mind. Migrating to a different primary browser simply has too many barriers of entry for it to be that simple.

That being said, for a free year of Windows 7, a default switch flip of something so arbitrarily easy to reverse isn't that big a deal. If you care that much, switch it back.

JadoJodo · 7 months ago

It would be one thing if Microsoft specifically prohibited Mozilla or Opera browsers on the machine, but they don't. The fact is, they make the OS and I shouldn't have to bothered with the question:

"Which browser would you like as your default:

a) Internet Explorer 8
b) Mozilla Firefox
c) Opera
d) Apple Safari
e) Google Chrome
f) Amaya
g) SeaMonkey
h) Maxthon
i) Konqueror
j) Camino"

That's just dumb.

linuxed · 7 months ago

With the exception of some fairly new software like flash 10 64 bit. and some driver software I forced to load I find the OS runs nice. It's vista the way it should have been done. I'm happy with it. after the 7000 version stood up with my repeated usage for two months I made the leap and put the RC on both my laptop (1.7ghz celeron with 1 gb ram) and my Desktop (2.6ghz dual core with 2gb ram) They are both running at least as well as XP and I really like the new clean interface. As usual with any new OS theirs going to be software glitches however I really like this and I have to say I'm the most excited about this OS as I was with window 2k and XP.

Bryan "bytehead" Price · 7 months ago

You know what? I just installed Chrome on my laptop, it's the last browser that I wanted to install on my new install of Windows 7 RC. I bring up the options to tweak a few things, and I see it's already made the decision that it's my default browser.

So Google, you're speaking bullshit when you talk about it. You're doing the same thing.

cl · 7 months ago

Mozilla & Opera ought to work with Microsoft to be ready for Windows 7. Despite using Firefox, in Windows 7, IE comes across as the superior browser, given the other browsers lack of integration, e.g., no task-bar tabs or jump-lists.

Allen · 7 months ago

It gets very tiring listening to the "Anti Microsoft" fanboys. I personally don't like IE and use Chrome and Firefox, but it's not difficult to switch to them as a primary browser after an upgrade. People just like to bash Microsoft because of who they are and nit pick everything that they do. Find real problems with the 7 RC and report them, be a little constructive at least ... :)

John Thomnas · 7 months ago

Wow, thats the craziest thing I have ever seen!

RT
www.privacy-web.net.tc

Tom · 7 months ago

Blah Blah Blah. It's a RC. Anything to smash at Microsoft these days. They finally put out a slick OS and there is a complaint about IE again? Give it a god damn break. Oh noes IE is default again! All I have to do is run fire fox and boom it's default.

wtf · 7 months ago

....is this really something to write about? Really? It's MS's OS, of course they will set their default browser to IE, who wouldn't?

Besides, just start Opera after the install, it will ask you to set it as your default browser. Click the YES-button, and you're all set. I have done an upgrade, I pressed express and I didn't even notice..

Booring

aaaaa · 7 months ago

Big fucking deal. Get over it mashable.

Idiot · 7 months ago

Stop your fucking whining. Take three seconds and change it your fucking self. It's called fucking EXPRESS for a reason, douchebag. And defaulting to IE doesn't change the fact that the user who has another browser will OPEN THAT FUCKING BROWSER INSTEAD OF IE ANYWAY.

Alex · 7 months ago

I am a pretty confused that this is even headline news! If you do not like Internet Explorer as your default browser.... open firefox and press MAKE DEFAULT BROWSER!

FML... this is lame! Can I not get a second?

It is Microsoft's new operating systems and browser.... why wouldn't they want to increase market share.... is that not the point of a software company? (=

Marc Handelman · 7 months ago

Other issues executing Mozilla binaries have also come to light... A small example is screen redraws: When utilizing Mozilla or Opera browsers, a significant time lag in the screen redraw (enough to notice), as well as a very short 'blink' becomes evident. The browsers do not necessarily behave in the same manner as on previous version of Windows. Furthermore, at this point in our testing (on multiple machines, all Core2 Duos), IE8 does behave the same on Vista, XP as well as Seven. Of course, this may also be an indication of the 'beta' status of the RC.

T Man · 7 months ago

If you guys have a problem with this, there are mechanisms to communicate this issue with MS. Since it is an RC and they are still working on it, I can't say, and neither can anyone here, say that MS is doing this intentionally or if there is a coding error.

I like Firefox, but it seems that Mozilla just wants to jump on the bash MS bandwagon and get a piece of the pie. Firefox has grown by building a better browser and an enthusiastic user base. IE has gotten quite good. Folks, you gotta a build a better mousetrap if you want the market share cheese.

Madvil · 6 months ago

I don't see how this will stop any firefox/opera user from reinstalling and remaking his favorite browser as default but yeah, let's whine more about an unreleased product some more.

Phayke · 6 months ago

It doesn't seem like it really matters much. I don't know any IE users with the know-how or interest in using a test build of an operating system. And if the RC DID get installed on their computer they'd say 'Why'd you put it like that? I had all it just how I wanted it!' These types of people care nothing of browsers.

jadm5000 · 6 months ago

I have used windows 7 build 7000 and 7100 on a Toshiba A205-S5804 also 2 Dell laptops, benchmarking actually shows it is as slow as Vista and slower than XP but it's biggest problem here is Opera, FF and IE8 are slow and using eithr to download the downloads are extremely slow and even stop no matter what we do and we are no pc newbs by far. The Windows 7 Betas stink and are just Vista with some changes and a new name.

dwinkle · 5 months ago

I call bullshit. My machine came with Vista, worked excellently with said Vista, and continues to run peachy on Seven. I have a dual core Intel, 3 gb of ram, and inbred Intel 940 graphics. It never locks up, crashes, or drags, and it doesn't on two other machines I knew well. If you can't use a PC, buy a Mac and shut up.

Jamie Buchanan · 6 months ago

Setting IE as the default browser will have little effect if any, the demographic of people who are installing and testing Windows 7 will more than likely be savvy enough to be able to choose and install their own prefered browser within about 9 seconds of the first boot.

Like Tom said, It's Windows, it comes with IE for a reason - If it didn't, how would you get to the Firefox download page?

dwinkle · 5 months ago

Seriously, grow up. Would you expect anything less from Microsoft? If you don't know how to launch Firefox without a desktop icon, stop using Windows. Get Mac if you want the computer to do everything for you.

cheinyeanlim · 4 months ago

Personally I feel that Microsoft have made enough sacrifices with these antitrust laws and feel that Apple don’t seem to have restrictions on their Safari browser, so why should Microsoft.

http://www.pupuweb.com/blog/opera-software-comp...