So it's ok for them to say something "wrong" and then go "oops, we take that back". But when someone publicly states their mind about them, and makes them look bad, it's not ok.
Belinda
· 4 months ago
I agree with you!
lakawak
· 4 months ago
No, Mike...but it is wrong when someone LIES to spread rumors about a company.
Horizon
· 4 months ago
Lakawak.... your comments are so obviously biased, and you are so intensely concerned with monitoring every single comment on this post, that it is blatantly obvious you are, or are affiliated with Horizon. You might as well update your profile....
Rupert
· 4 months ago
Everybody says it was visible to Bonnen's 20 followers. It wasn't.
The way that Twitter handles @ now, this private tweet would only have been visible to her friend's 6 followers, and only *if* they also followed Bonnen, which most of them probably did not. (the friend has changed her Twitter ID now, the jessb123 you see now is not her).
So it was, to all practical intents and purposes, a private tweet between two people. Not a message for the world to read. Not even a message the world *could* read.
I hope Bonnen is made aware that this is how Twitter works, and uses it to blow these vexatious bastards out of the water in court.
Lancaster
· 4 months ago
So what you are saying is that ONLY her friends could see the tweet. Which means that ONE (or more) of her FRIENDS stabbed her in the back and reported her to Horizon. Nice friends.
twittervlog
· 4 months ago
Well, actually, no - @ tweets are searchable, so it would show up if you searched for Horizon Realty - and doubtless they found it because they searched or had some kind of Twitter alert set up to tell them when anyone used the words Horizon Realty. so there is that...
lakawak
· 4 months ago
which completely makes your first comment pointless. If itis searchable to anyone who searches on Horizon REalty, then the lawsuit has lerit if there was no mold. After all, this is hte age of Twitter. Surely there are people that will search on a potential landlord beore signing a lease. Many will Google the landlord. Others will google it, AND search on various other sites.
Hence, far more than 6 people could see it. Including potential customers.
Kimberly Garcia
· 4 months ago
My aunt lived in apartments all over Chicago for the past forty years. Mold, heating and electricity being charged to one, used by several. Landlords refusing a lease. Windows being rotted from the outside in! For decades we have been her witness to the in person conversations with her various landlord asking for help. NONE ever came. In the end, the landlord would raise the rent just to get the complainer out! AND THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY WANTS TO SUE BASED ON WHAT! Freedom of speech??
lakawak
· 4 months ago
pleae don't embarras yourself by proving to he world that you don't understnad the Bill of Rights. At NO point in the first amendment is libel rotected.
TwitrFic
· 4 months ago
People post their distaste frequently online. It's a consumers "review". How can you sue over that? They brought more bad press by suing than just shrugging it off or getting other tenants to right good reviews. Get a clue horizon you do not fight fire with fire. Especially in Social Media.
lakawak
· 4 months ago
IF there was no mold, then it is not a review. It is a libelous statement.
steve
· 4 months ago
Mold, no mold. Libel, no libel. Seems like you've got an axe to grind in this discussion. I assume that you are somehow associated with the company. The mold and the alleged libel are microscopic when compared to the blunders of the executive leadership and representation of the company.The bigger questions here are:
What the hell would motivate a management company to make such a mountain out of such a molehill? What could they hope to gain? We see the results. One wonders if it is worth it to make your company appear in such a negative and adversarial light.
Mr. Michael's initial statement calls the company's motivations into question. Why would a reputable company make this statement?
I see your point about the flock mentality. As you said earlier, the facts determine the real story. You also need to be careful about jumping to the 'lie' conclusion. If you are not directly related to the company you don't have the facts either.
I'm looking at a transfer into Chicago and may be in the market for a rental. This situation has caused me to do more research into the company. I'm quite sure I could find nasty history on any landlord in the city. But there is a recurring pattern in stories involving Mr. Michael. And they do not support a trust filled relationship.
Trust is the most important thing for me in a business relationship. Regardless of the condition of the apartments (I can see through whiney complaints and these things are fixable). Someone who cannot be trusted, however... This cannot be fixed. In my estimation, Mr. Michael and the company's representation made a grave misjudgment in pushing litigation based on this transparent and nearly inconsequential comment.
Certainly most are going to see this as a sad commentary on the state of our business civilization. No matter how the minority of folks that would support such lunatic PR behaviors might feel about it. The court of public opinion is very powerful. It will take a substantial amount of energy (or public amnesia - which also happens frequently) to overcome the negative effects of the company's public response.
chilee
· 4 months ago
Lakawak - Horizon is full of back talk and dirty work. Mold is actually their tiniest offense. Just look at their Ravenswood property and what's going on there. Do some digging. Trust me, if people say they have mold in that building...it's worse than you could imagine.
Paul
· 4 months ago
So in effect this company is just like our President - both Chicago thugs.
That said, according to the letter, the company has every right to counter sue and protect themselves over what essentially amounts to a shakedown by the lady... so maybe SHE'S just like the President... she just needs to work on her community organizing skills - I mean, when every other tenant is satisfied, she's woefully lacking in ability.
ahh, Chicago.
Belinda
· 4 months ago
lolwut
Did you really have to bring up the President?
Liz
· 4 months ago
Okay, so she sued them first and it sounds like they were trying to dig up dirt on her. Whether or not her case has merits can be determined by an outside inspector.
My guess is that some summer intern discovered this Tweet and Horizon completely mistook its importance within the communication circle that is Twitter/social networking (i.e. thousands of Tweets going out a minute, a fraction of which are seen & read).
First, very few people (20?) saw this Tweet and it is unlikely that it went any further that airing a gripe until this lawsuit turned it into something bigger. Bottom line: I'll never remember the name of the woman who Tweeted this, I don't care if there was mold or not, but I will associate Horizon with incompetence.
They keep digging a bigger hole, I don't know how they can get out of this one with their arrogant attitude.
The Marketing Intern
· 4 months ago
See, but that's exactly the point. The fact that you admittedly "will associate Horizon with incompetence" has nothing to do with the fact that Horizon is actually incompetent (maybe they are, I don't know). It has everything to do with the fact that this woman aired her gripes to the detriment of the company, and Horizon had no means of recourse. Regardless of whether the Tweet went out to two people, twenty, or two thousand, your assertion that, as an objective third party, Horizon's image has been sullied as a result of this tweet could be legitimate fodder for a defamation suit.
rfdgn1209
· 4 months ago
Actually no. Her perception of Horizon being incompetent did not evolve from the tweet. It evolved from Jeff Michael's quoted response of "We are a sue first, ask questions later kind of organization."
The fact that this gotten so big has nothing to do with the tweet, as no one knew about it, UNTIL the announcement of the lawsuit which was not by Ms. Bonnen. She has yet to comment on the matter, and given that she already has a lawsuit pending against Horizon, means she went through the proper channels and did not make it a public matter.
Libel is only libel, when its untrue. Unless she felt like wasting money, who would sue a Realty group if the claim isn't true, and she can't back it up?
The Observation Deck
· 4 months ago
Your statements have shown two things: 1) You don't know anything about law and 2) You apparently don't know anything about public relations. Horizon will be laughed out of court for the lack of merit in their case and they will probably get hit with a SLAPP for filing a retaliatory lawsuit without even talking to the defendant prior to suing. Plus the bad press and damage to their reputation they are receiving for their stupid comments would make it impossible to prove damages by Amanda Bonnen EVEN if the case had merit (which it does not). Try doing your homework before posting such silly responses. I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes after I read yours.
Mike Murray
· 4 months ago
Now that I know that the Tweeter was the litigious party... I do feel a little regret in condemning them so quickly.
mrshl
· 4 months ago
Their full response seems measured and coherent. Not sure why all the hate.
leliathomas
· 4 months ago
You know, for some reason, I doubt this company. It could just be my gut reaction to hearing a company make such an asinine comment about "sue first, ask questions later," but seriously...
I could be wrong, but it sounds like mold is a fairly common problem for their apartments. They actually have a prominent and specific "mold policy" on their website. http://www.horizonrealtygroup.com/UserFiles/fil... Maybe this is common for Chicago apartments, due to local climate, but I've never encountered a specific mold policy. Caught my attention on their website.
There's a 2008 review of Horizon Realty I found as well, here. It included this:
Lived here for 10 months then broke my lease. Here's why:
-Cockroach infestation-They could never fix the problem.</e> -Health code violations abound-mold, no working fire alarms, uncovered light bulbs fire hazard.
I find it pretty interesting that in April 2008, someone was having similar issues with Horizon Realty.
zippystarshine
· 4 months ago
Sorry, Horizon. You can attempt spin all you want, but your Twitter 'lawsuit' smacks of the bully trying to shut the little guy up. Tweeters are not impressed. And by the way, when my family moves to Chicago next year...? Yours is one company we'll be sure to avoid.
lainer
· 4 months ago
Shame! Shame! Shame! Horizon will be out of business soon with that attitude.
DarrenScottMonroe
· 4 months ago
Unfortunatly Lainer, they probably wont. Like I said on the first article that is Chicago. They don't care , They dont care about Twitter, their tenant (obviously) and Mashup. As far as they are concerned all three can go to blazes. Guys they probably didn't even know what a Twitter was before they found out the poor lady's post.
Major audacity. I am not saying everyone in Chi is like that obviously not but some organizations and it's people with power and positions are amazingly arrogant.
Besides I don't believe there will be one Judge in Cook county who will dare deal with this in court against her. Election year is not far away and this has some heat to it plus it sounds ridiculous.
I suspect the motive was to get her to settle out of court which would mean her being kicked out and no deposit. I know it sounds grandiose. But if she has been paying her rent they would have a hard time otherwise trying to evict her under Chicago housing laws without justification.
lakawak
· 4 months ago
I loveit when people like you think you know everything about the case based on knowing about 2% of hte facs. Amazing how juvenile people can be on the internet. You know NOTHING about this woman. And i is not uncommon at all for someone to sue over a disagreement and make up lies to tryu to win. But you have a chip on your shoulder and think that all businesses are evil. Gotcha.
I knew a landlord that had a tenant who didn't like the fact that the landlord kept the apartments at "only" 70 degrees in the winter. (Landlord paid for heat) to heat up her apartment, she would turn on the hot water in the shower and let it run until the hot water ran out. (Resulting in no one being able to take night time showers unless they wanted it cold.) When her lease was up, the landlords refused to renew it and she sued...for mold...mold that she caused and hte landlord did clean up once but told her that she would have to pay for any future clean ups since it was obvious what was causing the mold which was occurring oknly in her apartment was was literally branching out in a concentric circle from her shower. But yes...all businesses are evil because YOU say so after reading a few biased articles on it.
Thank god you are not a lawyer, or a judge or anyone of importance.
DarrenScottMonroe
· 4 months ago
Mr or Mrs excitement calm it down. Lakawak, first of all try that new invention called spell check LOL! Your soooo mad (oohhh angry guy ooooo) that your misspelling words.
And if you know more than 2% of her story (you know the one that got you commenting?) then why didn't you supply it??
Thank God your not a spelling teacher or a assembly person for the speak and spell factory . LOL!
You seem very emotionally involved. Cool out hey you know what might help you is a warm relaxing midnight shower opps er ah nevermind :)
Graham
· 4 months ago
DarrenScottMonroe. Please do not critique people's spelling when your grammar is atrocious. It's You're, as in You are, not your. Also, it's An assembly person, not A assembly. And I don't even know where to start with the punctuation. Long story short; If you're going to criticize someone's post based on linguistics and not content, try to keep yours tidy as well.
sdg
· 4 months ago
I had to take a gigantic dump. It was very difficult to get it out. When It finally came, I took a close look at it. It was the Horizon spokesperson! He was stomping about, all pissed off. He threatened to sue me because I had not kept my inner bowels in a 100% perfectly mold-free condition.
He was the cutest little thing. He had a tiny briefcase full of soiled legal papers and a tiny hat covering his bald head.
It's true what they say about losing things, (like small morons); their always in the last place you look!
Juan García
· 4 months ago
Ahora conozco bien a Horizon y sé cómo funcionan, sé cual su política de empresa: "No aceptar la realidad, les molestan las verdades".
Feenicks
· 4 months ago
welcome to the 21st century mr real estate man...
Your Name*Steve Rosenbaum
· 4 months ago
Horizon Realty needs 2 things: A good PR firm, and a copy of "Groundswell". This picture of their Twitter Trend says it all! http://twitpic.com/byj4y
Alexis
· 4 months ago
omg... I'm just mortified for them. They know not what they do.
paulpuri
· 4 months ago
Now they are back pedaling. You can't undo a harsh statement. There are no take backsies. They will forever be known as the "sue first ask questions later company".
Jay Thompson
· 4 months ago
“tongue in cheek”?? WTF???
I'd offer to sell them the http://bit.ly/horizon URL, but they need to be spending boat loads of cash on a new PR guy....
jfsellsius
· 4 months ago
Tongue in cheek = foot in mouth
bigmac
· 4 months ago
Unreal... I'm going to to start suing people for stupid stuff too. Must be a good business.
Nick Lawhead
· 4 months ago
Is that whole letter supposed to be one quote? @nlawhead
Madison1964
· 4 months ago
I hope the judge sends them both to their rooms. Just what any justice system needs: stupid lawsuits. Is it libel if someone is stating their opinion? All Bonnen's tweets seem to be expressing her opinion (dislike?) of many things.
lakawak
· 4 months ago
What she said is NOT an opinion. If there was no mold, it was an outright lie. And no...don't embarrass yourself with your ignorancfe by saing "She never ACTUALLY said there wwas mold in the apartment. In a court of law, they go by what a REASONABLE person would interpret a statement. And to anyone not nitpicking, it was obvious what the Tweet was suggesting. Hence, if there was no mold, it is not an opinion, but a libelous statement.
Andy Woodworth
· 4 months ago
Welcome to the reputation economy!
Arthur
· 4 months ago
You're a dick! SUE ME!
Arthur
· 4 months ago
You're a dick! SUE ME!
Spike
· 4 months ago
They are morons. One quick TwitPic of the alleged mold and their case will be history. :-)
Brian Sack
· 4 months ago
And this is why I hold real estate people in the same esteem as car dealers, politicians and cat rapists.
imlj
· 4 months ago
The comment may have been "tongue in cheek" but the whole situation is now a farce. How entertaining! I'm waiting for the next overly-reactive corporate "we'll nail you to the wall first" PR fiasco.
pyrabang Nick
· 4 months ago
Oops another missed statement they now have 1,499 tenants. Oh well I am sure they will correct that one too.
Angoffwork
· 4 months ago
Interesting article if it wasn't so biased against the realty group. You are entitled to have an opinion, but in order to be a respected journalist or reporter or whatever you have to be unbiased. Just present the facts and let us decide for ourselves who is at fault.
PS. Most document readers have a way to straighten the document if it was scanned in crooked, which is clearly the case here.
Ned
· 4 months ago
It's mold litigation. She sued Horizon. She then, outside of the context of the suit, She made an allegation. Of course they sued. Their defense in the first suit is the absence of mold. Her defense in the slander suit is the presence of mold. And so it goes.
rfdgn1209
· 4 months ago
Actually no. The whole tweet in question is as follows:
"@JessB123 You should just come anyway. Who said sleeping in a moldy apartment was bad for you? Horizon realty thinks it's okay."
Dated 11:08 AM May 12th from web in reply to JessBergman
The lawsuit from Ms. Bonnen was filed on June 24th. She moved out on June 30th and Horizon's lawsuit was filed after that. The most likely thing that happened here is that Horizon went looking for dirt on Bonnen, searched a bunch of social networks, found the 1-2 month old tweet, and are using that as "evidence" so that they can counter-sue and she would drop the first lawsuit. At this point the way it works is if Bonnen loses the first lawsuit claiming there was mold, the second lawsuit is an easy win for Horizon and she is hit with $50,000 in damages. This is not a new tactic.
As Rupert made clear above @replies are longer broadcast to everyone only the followers of both accounts since the logic change.
"Everybody says it was visible to Bonnen's 20 followers. It wasn't.
The way that Twitter handles @ now, this private tweet would only have been visible to her friend's 6 followers, and only *if* they also followed Bonnen, which most of them probably did not. (the friend has changed her Twitter ID now, the jessb123 you see now is not her)."
Ned
· 4 months ago
No specifically to what point? One suit is mold. The other is libel. The reach and timing of the tweet isn't material.
rfdgn1209
· 4 months ago
Sorry let me clarify, as my reply to you was also directed at some other comments. I was saying no to just your timeline of events.
"She sued Horizon. She then, outside of the context of the suit, She made an allegation. Of course they sued."
Would imply, especially to someone that doesn't know all the current facts, that she sued Horizon AND THEN made the tweet/allegation while the lawsuit was pending. The timeline is:
Outside of the context of any suit, She made an allegation/tweet then later [We don't know what happened here] She sued Horizon. Horizon found the "public" allegation and then of course they sued.
Timing is everything as there could have been mold when she made the comment, making it not libel. There could have been multiple attempts, or none, to try and correct the situation before or after the tweet. These are things that we do not know, because the PR statement only mentions March 2009 and that Ms Bonnen's grievances were not resolved, at least to her satisfaction.
Ned
· 4 months ago
I can't respond to your later comment in-line due to limitations in the comment system.
The timing of the discrete suits doesn't matter. She is making a mold claim in her suit and in her Twitter allegation outside of the suit. The libel suit is based on the Twitter allegation. The libel claim stands apart and will be judged on the basis of whether the court/jury finds any truth to the claim (the good news is that the language of the tweet leaves a bit of wiggle room). If, as you say, the tweet preceded the mold suit, then the timing still doesn't matter in the libel case, as proof of the mold would be required to remedy the slander claim. More to the point, if she made an allegation about mold (or asbestos, or radiation for that matter) in an accessible, syndicated digital forum, she should realize that the implications and broader liability on the part of the real estate management corp require them to address it actively and decisively.
She may be right, and if she is, hopefully she will, with resources gained from this publicity, prevail so that any problems are remedied and justice is served. In my mind, the issue here is not the medium or the legal issues- it's the disparity of resources in addressing the respective claims. The beauty of Twitter et. al. is that these issues are brought to the public's attention more easily. The downside is that, while these claims have a more immediate and receptive audience, they're also subject to the law and entrenched interests with superior resources. And that can suck for anyone just trying to make a point.
lakawak
· 4 months ago
Again...the very fact that Horizon SAW the Tweet means that it was visible to far more than 6 people. Tweets ar searchable. So ANYONE who searched on Horizon Tealty would ahve been able to see it. And people do research on potential apartments before signing leases. Chances are, people now search Twitter to see if anyone has posted info.
ESV
· 4 months ago
That's the type of attitude that gives "gay" a bad name...
Laine
· 4 months ago
Talk about coming up with a 'tag line that sticks' - lol! Seriously, if the person is upset enough to MOVE, then they're pretty upset. You know how much it sucks to move. Well, the more that comes to light, the more they are digging themselves a hole. If they had said they thought it was sour grapes with one of their tennants, it would be a lot less damaging than this. Who wants to live at an apartment building where the owners are a "sue first, ask questions later kind of organization" - I would NEVER live there - no matter how nice it was because I'd never feel comfortable. If I have an issue, they'll sue me before asking me how they can rectify the situation. Wow, today I read the other article - now I read this and I just think this must be the worst company in the world.
Laine
· 4 months ago
And I'd like to add that it is one hundred percent because of the statement by Horizon Realty that they are a 'sue first, ask questions later kind of organization' that makes me think they must be the worst company in the world. Just clarifying in case they take this list to court as some kind of evidence. What company says that? I'm still horrified.
Daniel Allen
· 4 months ago
This case will be studied for weeks and maybe months as how NOT to handle a complaint about your company.
On the plus side for Horizon (if they are looking for a silver lining) the links they are getting from this has got to be insane. If they try to do any SEO in the future, they will do very well. However, they better cross their fingers no one google's 'horizon realty' as they will be faced with all of this immaturity.
Joe Zekas
· 4 months ago
I was amused by Horizon's Jeff Michael's reference to the company's "good reputation." See
seems like they are admitting to suing her in retaliation/intimidation because she is suing them for something else, and they think this is a defense? Slimy as ever!
MarkHGordon
· 4 months ago
All she has to say is that her comment was "tongue in cheek regarding her approach to living in that apartment", and that's that. Story's over. If it works for this douchebag of a company, then it should be fine for her!
spicycauldron
· 4 months ago
Well said!
Brian Kopp
· 4 months ago
I can't wait to read it now, the Horizon Realty case study in the next Groundswell book, as an example of how not to get your start in Social Media.
spicycauldron
· 4 months ago
It wasn't a joke. The man was swinging what he thought was a big metaphorical whanger, playing the hard corporate guy. It's backfiring hugely. When will companies learn? You cannot take on the Twitter stream and come out of it without significant wounds. If they behaved respectfully, and laws supported people more than they do businesses, this would never happen.
Rhea
· 4 months ago
What a joke that company is. What about free speech?
NatMich
· 4 months ago
Even without the 'twitter publicity' backlash, it still would have been a lot cheaper to address the tweet/concern directly through Twitter themselves...
Mark
· 4 months ago
why aren't either of these 'tards (ms bonnen or horizon realty) on Twitter?!
JJones74
· 4 months ago
There are quite a few companies that have 'Horizon' in their name. No matter who's right, by now, their name is mud, too. I wonder if these other Horizon companies will sue Horizon Realty for the damage to their name and reputation.
Troy Ziesmer
· 4 months ago
If this person is an attorney and/or a Realtor(R), they are about to get their lisence tossed under extreme scutiny, at least in my own humble opinion. The Tennant probably (*assumable), moved out due to her allergic reaction to the water and mold build up. As an agent I know that it takes weeks for mold to appear fully and manifest enough to detect without a invasive test, such as cutting out a part of the wall or carpet to literally peer inside the wall and look. Most mold specialists will tell you the same. it takes more than a few days, which it has now been. I am guessing that the tennant will win. There was no issue on behalf of the Building owner nor reputation to protect, just a pissy little minion and an attorney fluffing each other and flexing their muscles and beating their chests over nothing. They could have made it go away by ignoring it. After all...Do you remember what was twittered two days ago let alone a month ago. Better yet... Who cares!
Troy Ziesmer
· 4 months ago
If this person is an attorney and/or a Realtor(R), they are about to get their lisence tossed under extreme scutiny, at least in my own humble opinion. The Tennant probably (*assumable), moved out due to her allergic reaction to the water and mold build up. As an agent I know that it takes weeks for mold to appear fully and manifest enough to detect without a invasive test, such as cutting out a part of the wall or carpet to literally peer inside the wall and look. Most mold specialists will tell you the same. it takes more than a few days, which it has now been. I am guessing that the tennant will win. There was no issue on behalf of the Building owner nor reputation to protect, just a pissy little minion and an attorney fluffing each other and flexing their muscles and beating their chests over nothing. They could have made it go away by ignoring it. After all...Do you remember what was twittered two days ago let alone a month ago. Better yet... Who cares!
Rachael
· 4 months ago
This is going to cost Horizon a lot more than legal fees...
Jonathan
· 4 months ago
I think the lawyer who filed the suit, Bret Rappaport of Hardt, Stern & Kayne, needs the fee to get a decent haircut...check it out...http://www.hardtstern.com/attorneys/bret_rappaport.html
I bet I've never heard about this said mold problem here in Finland, but this lawsuit made sure that their customer policy is really spread worldwide.
willbradley
· 4 months ago
"...acted to protect our reputation just as we would for any other related comment made in a public forum."
So, blah blah blah, suing for a negative comment is still acceptable in their eyes? I like to give companies the benefit of the doubt, but this is just ridiculous. Some people never learn (and/or should never be allowed out of the beancounting room.)
drewshope
· 4 months ago
It seems so scary to traditional PR and marketers that the consumer holds all the power these days. It's not scary; it's progress.
Nothing like watching a big company eat their words.
All behold the power of social media.
lakawak
· 4 months ago
Give me a break. you are pretty sure they lost more than $50,000? How do you propose they did that? Are you really trying to imply that in the last 2 days that $50,000 worth of tenants have decided to break the leases illegally and not pay their rent?. Or are you implying that people are really going to remember this when htey look for apartments in the future? Both implications are ridiculous.
Oh, and Darren..so, you have proof that this woman is telling the truth? If so, please provide it, otherwise you are just being a little bitch. Horizon's side of the story is FAR more plausible. Too many people think that the custoemr is always right which is simply not the case. Hell, there is an entire website (consumerist) dedicated to customers bitching whenever a company didn't bend over backwards to their unrealistic expectations.
Ned
· 4 months ago
Mashable needs to do an article on the nature of libel in the context of free speech. While both the Tweeter and the Tweetee may have handled this differently, so much of the indignation expressed both in the article and the comments is simply bizarre, especially given the volatile nature of the topic at hand. If you're going to make a specific allegation about a person or company, then word it carefully or be prepared to demonstrate that it's factual, particularly if the other party is likely to consider it defamatory. Another option, as was the case with "United Breaks Guitars," is to lay out the facts and context specifically in your statement, however whimsical it may be. But to throw out, however briefly, a comment like "apparently Dr. [fill in the blank] thinks it's ok to leave surgical instruments in people once he/she is done operating on them" is likely to garner a reaction, either by itself or as part of a broader process (like a law suit).
A
· 4 months ago
It sounds like maybe they were just trying to find a reason to sue her so they could negotiate with her to drop her lawsuit if they would drop theirs.
Outraged Public
· 4 months ago
Help stop companies like Horizon Realty from filing frivolous lawsuits and wasting taxpayer money. Please follow us on Twitter at OutragedPublic, and then visit http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/OutragedPubl... to sign a petition telling companies like Horizon that you find this behavior unacceptable. Our simple website is located at http://outragedpublic.weebly.com/. We will be posting updates on our petition progress there, and we have a forum where you can discuss your thoughts on this issue. Together we can make a statement. Thank you for your support.
NeilCardiff
· 4 months ago
The "Sue first" comment reminds me of Ratners, a jewelery chain here in Britain.
It's owner Gerald Ratner destroyed his company overnight with this one comment at a shareholder meeting.
"People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, because it's total crap".
He later said that was tongue in cheek also.
Too late, it had already goten out and the companies reputation was destroyed. It collapsed a short time later.
your all idiots
· 4 months ago
your all idiots. this is EXACTLY what they want, our attention.
NeilCardiff
· 4 months ago
What an idiotic thing to say. No way do they want this negative attention, it will severely hit their business. Try thinking before you speak as you just make yourself look silly.
Keith Lambert
· 4 months ago
How does a real estate management firm protect it's self from trouble seeking tenants? Lets face it, some tenants are hard on the owner/management too. I've had my share. Seems Horizon Realty went over the top. But false claims are not uncommon. I've got my share of odd stories. The more the tenant feel empowered to get unfair advantage with the local rules the more likely they are to pull stunts on the owner/mgmt to get a way with something.
I do not like frivolous law suites by tenants or by the owners. Mediation can and does work. Even in the hotbed of Santa Monica where the SM Rent Control Board has had the ability to strong arm property owners for years has finally gotten mediation as the first step to get a good win win solution.
Recently we have had false mold claims. And a frivolous law suit over a raccoon. Silly stuff. Just part of the life we live in this business.
Keith Lambert 20+ years of property management Santa Monica and Los Angeles CA
Mike
· 4 months ago
There is nothing in the RLTO to "manipulate." The fact that Horizon refers to the RLTO as "controversial" really shows their true colors here. Thanks to the RLTO, which clearly lays out the rights of tenants and the responsibilities of landlords, I and many of my friends have gotten back the full amount of my security deposit from shady landlords who tried to withhold all or part of it arbitrarily. Compared to most big cities, Chicago is a landlord's paradise with no rent controls and only a handful of tenant rights. The fact that Horizon's being a crybaby over a provision in the RLTO is laughable. Is Horizon going to sue every commenter on Yelp now?
Marty Couch
· 4 months ago
It's amazing that Horizon can explain the "We're a sue first, ask questions later kind of an organization" as "tongue and cheek" yet a single post on twitter is worth $50,000.00 in damages to them. I certainly don't want to call them stupid or irresponsible, because that could get me sued. So, for the record, they are not stupid or irresponsible. We'll just continue to let their actions prove that, shall we?
All Comments
The way that Twitter handles @ now, this private tweet would only have been visible to her friend's 6 followers, and only *if* they also followed Bonnen, which most of them probably did not. (the friend has changed her Twitter ID now, the jessb123 you see now is not her).
So it was, to all practical intents and purposes, a private tweet between two people. Not a message for the world to read. Not even a message the world *could* read.
I hope Bonnen is made aware that this is how Twitter works, and uses it to blow these vexatious bastards out of the water in court.
so there is that...
Hence, far more than 6 people could see it. Including potential customers.
What the hell would motivate a management company to make such a mountain out of such a molehill? What could they hope to gain? We see the results. One wonders if it is worth it to make your company appear in such a negative and adversarial light.
Mr. Michael's initial statement calls the company's motivations into question. Why would a reputable company make this statement?
I see your point about the flock mentality. As you said earlier, the facts determine the real story. You also need to be careful about jumping to the 'lie' conclusion. If you are not directly related to the company you don't have the facts either.
I'm looking at a transfer into Chicago and may be in the market for a rental. This situation has caused me to do more research into the company. I'm quite sure I could find nasty history on any landlord in the city. But there is a recurring pattern in stories involving Mr. Michael. And they do not support a trust filled relationship.
Trust is the most important thing for me in a business relationship. Regardless of the condition of the apartments (I can see through whiney complaints and these things are fixable). Someone who cannot be trusted, however... This cannot be fixed. In my estimation, Mr. Michael and the company's representation made a grave misjudgment in pushing litigation based on this transparent and nearly inconsequential comment.
Certainly most are going to see this as a sad commentary on the state of our business civilization. No matter how the minority of folks that would support such lunatic PR behaviors might feel about it. The court of public opinion is very powerful. It will take a substantial amount of energy (or public amnesia - which also happens frequently) to overcome the negative effects of the company's public response.
That said, according to the letter, the company has every right to counter sue and protect themselves over what essentially amounts to a shakedown by the lady... so maybe SHE'S just like the President... she just needs to work on her community organizing skills - I mean, when every other tenant is satisfied, she's woefully lacking in ability.
ahh, Chicago.
Did you really have to bring up the President?
My guess is that some summer intern discovered this Tweet and Horizon completely mistook its importance within the communication circle that is Twitter/social networking (i.e. thousands of Tweets going out a minute, a fraction of which are seen & read).
First, very few people (20?) saw this Tweet and it is unlikely that it went any further that airing a gripe until this lawsuit turned it into something bigger. Bottom line: I'll never remember the name of the woman who Tweeted this, I don't care if there was mold or not, but I will associate Horizon with incompetence.
They keep digging a bigger hole, I don't know how they can get out of this one with their arrogant attitude.
The fact that this gotten so big has nothing to do with the tweet, as no one knew about it, UNTIL the announcement of the lawsuit which was not by Ms. Bonnen. She has yet to comment on the matter, and given that she already has a lawsuit pending against Horizon, means she went through the proper channels and did not make it a public matter.
Libel is only libel, when its untrue. Unless she felt like wasting money, who would sue a Realty group if the claim isn't true, and she can't back it up?
I could be wrong, but it sounds like mold is a fairly common problem for their apartments. They actually have a prominent and specific "mold policy" on their website. http://www.horizonrealtygroup.com/UserFiles/fil... Maybe this is common for Chicago apartments, due to local climate, but I've never encountered a specific mold policy. Caught my attention on their website.
There's a 2008 review of Horizon Realty I found as well, here. It included this:
Lived here for 10 months then broke my lease. Here's why:
-Cockroach infestation-They could never fix the problem.</e>
-Health code violations abound-mold, no working fire alarms, uncovered light bulbs fire hazard.
I find it pretty interesting that in April 2008, someone was having similar issues with Horizon Realty.
Major audacity. I am not saying everyone in Chi is like that obviously not but some organizations and it's people with power and positions are amazingly arrogant.
Besides I don't believe there will be one Judge in Cook county who will dare deal with this in court against her. Election year is not far away and this has some heat to it plus it sounds ridiculous.
I suspect the motive was to get her to settle out of court which would mean her being kicked out and no deposit. I know it sounds grandiose. But if she has been paying her rent they would have a hard time otherwise trying to evict her under Chicago housing laws without justification.
I knew a landlord that had a tenant who didn't like the fact that the landlord kept the apartments at "only" 70 degrees in the winter. (Landlord paid for heat) to heat up her apartment, she would turn on the hot water in the shower and let it run until the hot water ran out. (Resulting in no one being able to take night time showers unless they wanted it cold.) When her lease was up, the landlords refused to renew it and she sued...for mold...mold that she caused and hte landlord did clean up once but told her that she would have to pay for any future clean ups since it was obvious what was causing the mold which was occurring oknly in her apartment was was literally branching out in a concentric circle from her shower. But yes...all businesses are evil because YOU say so after reading a few biased articles on it.
Thank god you are not a lawyer, or a judge or anyone of importance.
And if you know more than 2% of her story (you know the one that got you commenting?) then why didn't you supply it??
Thank God your not a spelling teacher or a assembly person for the speak and spell factory . LOL!
You seem very emotionally involved. Cool out hey you know what might help you is a warm relaxing midnight shower opps er ah nevermind :)
He was the cutest little thing. He had a tiny briefcase full of soiled legal papers and a tiny hat covering his bald head.
It's true what they say about losing things, (like small morons); their always in the last place you look!
I'd offer to sell them the http://bit.ly/horizon URL, but they need to be spending boat loads of cash on a new PR guy....
@nlawhead
PS. Most document readers have a way to straighten the document if it was scanned in crooked, which is clearly the case here.
"@JessB123 You should just come anyway. Who said sleeping in a moldy apartment was bad for you? Horizon realty thinks it's okay."
Dated 11:08 AM May 12th from web in reply to JessBergman
The lawsuit from Ms. Bonnen was filed on June 24th. She moved out on June 30th and Horizon's lawsuit was filed after that. The most likely thing that happened here is that Horizon went looking for dirt on Bonnen, searched a bunch of social networks, found the 1-2 month old tweet, and are using that as "evidence" so that they can counter-sue and she would drop the first lawsuit. At this point the way it works is if Bonnen loses the first lawsuit claiming there was mold, the second lawsuit is an easy win for Horizon and she is hit with $50,000 in damages. This is not a new tactic.
As Rupert made clear above @replies are longer broadcast to everyone only the followers of both accounts since the logic change.
"Everybody says it was visible to Bonnen's 20 followers. It wasn't.
The way that Twitter handles @ now, this private tweet would only have been visible to her friend's 6 followers, and only *if* they also followed Bonnen, which most of them probably did not. (the friend has changed her Twitter ID now, the jessb123 you see now is not her)."
"She sued Horizon. She then, outside of the context of the suit, She made an allegation. Of course they sued."
Would imply, especially to someone that doesn't know all the current facts, that she sued Horizon AND THEN made the tweet/allegation while the lawsuit was pending. The timeline is:
Outside of the context of any suit, She made an allegation/tweet then later [We don't know what happened here] She sued Horizon. Horizon found the "public" allegation and then of course they sued.
Timing is everything as there could have been mold when she made the comment, making it not libel. There could have been multiple attempts, or none, to try and correct the situation before or after the tweet. These are things that we do not know, because the PR statement only mentions March 2009 and that Ms Bonnen's grievances were not resolved, at least to her satisfaction.
The timing of the discrete suits doesn't matter. She is making a mold claim in her suit and in her Twitter allegation outside of the suit. The libel suit is based on the Twitter allegation. The libel claim stands apart and will be judged on the basis of whether the court/jury finds any truth to the claim (the good news is that the language of the tweet leaves a bit of wiggle room). If, as you say, the tweet preceded the mold suit, then the timing still doesn't matter in the libel case, as proof of the mold would be required to remedy the slander claim. More to the point, if she made an allegation about mold (or asbestos, or radiation for that matter) in an accessible, syndicated digital forum, she should realize that the implications and broader liability on the part of the real estate management corp require them to address it actively and decisively.
She may be right, and if she is, hopefully she will, with resources gained from this publicity, prevail so that any problems are remedied and justice is served. In my mind, the issue here is not the medium or the legal issues- it's the disparity of resources in addressing the respective claims. The beauty of Twitter et. al. is that these issues are brought to the public's attention more easily. The downside is that, while these claims have a more immediate and receptive audience, they're also subject to the law and entrenched interests with superior resources. And that can suck for anyone just trying to make a point.
On the plus side for Horizon (if they are looking for a silver lining) the links they are getting from this has got to be insane. If they try to do any SEO in the future, they will do very well. However, they better cross their fingers no one google's 'horizon realty' as they will be faced with all of this immaturity.
http://yochicago.com/today/vignettes/sue-first-...
Uh, oh...was the defamation? Am I next?
I bet I've never heard about this said mold problem here in Finland, but this lawsuit made sure that their customer policy is really spread worldwide.
So, blah blah blah, suing for a negative comment is still acceptable in their eyes? I like to give companies the benefit of the doubt, but this is just ridiculous. Some people never learn (and/or should never be allowed out of the beancounting room.)
Nothing like watching a big company eat their words.
All behold the power of social media.
Oh, and Darren..so, you have proof that this woman is telling the truth? If so, please provide it, otherwise you are just being a little bitch. Horizon's side of the story is FAR more plausible. Too many people think that the custoemr is always right which is simply not the case. Hell, there is an entire website (consumerist) dedicated to customers bitching whenever a company didn't bend over backwards to their unrealistic expectations.
It's owner Gerald Ratner destroyed his company overnight with this one comment at a shareholder meeting.
"People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, because it's total crap".
He later said that was tongue in cheek also.
Too late, it had already goten out and the companies reputation was destroyed. It collapsed a short time later.
No way do they want this negative attention, it will severely hit their business.
Try thinking before you speak as you just make yourself look silly.
I do not like frivolous law suites by tenants or by the owners. Mediation can and does work. Even in the hotbed of Santa Monica where the SM Rent Control Board has had the ability to strong arm property owners for years has finally gotten mediation as the first step to get a good win win solution.
Recently we have had false mold claims. And a frivolous law suit over a raccoon. Silly stuff. Just part of the life we live in this business.
Keith Lambert
20+ years of property management
Santa Monica and Los Angeles CA