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Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Wogan — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:22:15 -0000

1: "...containing *custom* XML".

Custom XML? Are you serious? The X stands for "eXtensible" - THE WHOLE LANGUAGE IS CUSTOM!

This is an absolutely ridiculous injunction - I don't expect anything less than the whole thing being overturned in MS' favor.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Name — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 05:29:59 -0000

Microsoft actually WAS sort of ripping off its customers, making them pay for a text editor.

AbiWord is free and just as good, if not better.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Geoff — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:10:55 -0000

I'm not saying this company is a patent troll or not, to be honest I don't know the specifics of the details, but I will say that there's a reason why all these patent lawsuits keep going through the Texas courts... that's all.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

ROD — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:36:04 -0000

Its not like anybody uses DOCX anyway they should just dump the xml formating and stay with RTF and DOC

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Grig — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:53:30 -0000

I bet he was a Linux programmer :)

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Josh — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:35:22 -0000

I agree! I will be curious to see where this goes....

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Joe Bubna — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:40:25 -0000

I read the patent and i4i does NOT have a patent on XML or the typical formatting that XML uses. i4i's patent covers a STORAGE method for ANY "mark-up language" style documents.

To sum up their patent, if you take a text file with markup, have your software read it and remove the markup tags, and then store the formatting (determined by parsing the markup) and the content in separate locations, then you've violated their patent. This is accomplished by storing the formatting in some sort of metamap.

Programmers, Web Developers, etc, are always trying to separate "content" from "design" (I.E. Model-View-Controller, CSS). Doing what they patented allows you to store the content without any markup, with the markup stored in a separate file (an example Metamap = the number of characters until the start of the markup and then the markup type in that location).

So the lawsuit was about the processing and storage method Microsoft uses for XML files, not about XML markup itself.

P.S. If you want to read the patent yourself, go here (scroll down a ways to get to the more readable stuff):
http://patft.uspto.gov/neta...

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Joe Bubna — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:40:02 -0000

I read the patent and i4i does NOT have a patent on XML or the typical formatting that XML uses. i4i's patent covers a STORAGE method for ANY "mark-up language" style documents.

So the lawsuit was about the processing and storage method Microsoft uses for XML files, not about XML markup itself.

P.S. If you want to read the patent yourself, go here (scroll down a ways to get to the more readable stuff):
http://patft.uspto.gov/neta...

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

SensibleGuy — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:35:06 -0000

Come on people, this is the Internet - it has search engines. Look up "i4i" and visit their website. At least figure out what the company makes. Then you can search the United States patent office website and find out what the patent is about.

here... from the i4i website:
XML Authoring in Microsoft® Word
Improve the efficiency of document driven business processes by producing and collaborating on high quality business documents with x4o.

In 2003, Microsoft added the ability to edit an XML file to Word by tying the XML and optionally an XSD schema to Word. You can then plop/drop the fields from the XML anywhere in the Word document and edit within the tags. i4i claims to have the same feature. This is not the same is "patenting XML" - it is patenting a rather specific way of editing XML within Word. The i4i product works in a similar way.

Whether or not the patent infringement is valid, and whether or not the judge's decision makes sense, is another issue. But people, please, use the freakin' tools at your disposal before diving into a debate.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Tim Acheson — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:05:28 -0000

I can offer technical expertise and experience of the type of computer operation in question. I am consulting with contacts who have specialist knowledge in the other key areas, patent law and patent interpretation -- patent attorneys and editors on publications about scientific patents.

I have created a dedicated page on my web site where I will provide a simple analysis of the facts. From the analysis I will offer an informed prediction about the likely outcome of the appeal:

http://www.timacheson.com/b...

The case against Microsoft is spurious and highly questionable, and the court was not grossly under-qualified to make an informed judgement on the key issues.

The judge and laymen responsible for this decision lack the technical expertise required to compare the concepts described in the patent with the concepts applied in a software product such as Microsoft Word. The patent describes complex technical concepts and uses terminology that would be confusing even to somebody who does possess the technical expertise. The judge and laymen also lack the necessary expertise of patent law. In addition to the technical and legal complexities of this case, the text of the patent is not easy to follow; therefore it seems likely that the judge and laymen could not have understood the document.

Faced with a case too complex to understand, a judge and laymen could easily rule in favour of the side that they best understand, even if that side rests on flawed arguments. In this case, in a district court in Texas, we have the arguments put by technical and legal experts representing the world’s largest software corporation, against the arguments put by representatives of a local business.

If the judge and lay people involved were experts in computer science and patent law, which they were not, of course judges do make mistakes. Judges can also be incompetent, and there are numerous documented cases of persistently incompetent continuing to make bad decisions with impunity.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Steave — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:32:28 -0000

This is unbelievable.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Cappie — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:55:10 -0000

iWork 09 BABY! 

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Debs1220 — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:42:19 -0000

I'm stumped they let a Judge in Texas make this decision. No wonder it makes no sense at all. I wonder if he even knew what XML was??? lol

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Marco — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:02:10 -0000

The suit and verdict are ridiculous. I just read the patent and cannot believe the verdict was as it was. My more detailed analysis: http://domusinc.blogspot.com/2009/08/judge-rules-that-microsoft-must-stop.html.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

anonymous — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:23:24 -0000

This is a prime example why copyright and patent law should be considerably reformed. Perhaps the concept of intellectual property needs to be revisited and should result in the elimination of intellectual property protections.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Brian — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:00:47 -0000

Very Interesting article, but the use of the word 'ecosystem' to describe the software market strikes me as a buzz word chosen in poor taste. Given the dire state of world biodiversity, co-opting this term to describe a mega industry that generates so much electronic waste (software runs on hardware after all) is flagrant green washing.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

ratdog — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:29:42 -0000

$$$$$$$$$$$ Microsoft laughed at this judge and will appeal. Other than keeping lawyers employed, this will not stop MSFT.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Chris Sylvester — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:13:57 -0000

GUYS! Grow a sense of humour! :D sheeez - I'll file this one under "how to annoy the crap out of a bunch of Microsoft fan boys"

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Koao — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:05:50 -0000

Microsoft is ABSOLUTELY a patent troll.
Have you paid no attention to what they've been saying about linux for years?
They're constantly threatening that "Linux infringes on many MS patents, by running linux you put your corporation at risk".

Microsoft is getting EXACTLY what they deserve.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

DoubleMs — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:17:41 -0000

Microsoft can get out of it by including Word 'absolutely free' in Office, and reducing the price slightly...

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

alex RRR — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:58:49 -0000

not TRYING to say anything.
i am SAYING that americans are silly and should sit in the corner for a while tthink about what they are and how to fix it.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

alex RRR — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:57:41 -0000

ok, so i didn't know that i4i was canadian.
then why did they take it to the american law??
surely you would all understand that i menat the american texan judge.
plus i'm Australian so i don't really give a rats about any of this :P

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

alex RRR — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:55:40 -0000

ok, fair comment, didn't know that. thanks

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

Ashkir — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:43:15 -0000

I have actually. Advanced tables, several tiered bulleted lists, etc, and always was able to print fine with it.

Re: Judge: Microsoft Banned from Selling Word in the US

runlevel — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:56:16 -0000

use linux